44 Russian/44 American

[greentick]

I was advised to post over here by someone over at TheFiringLine forums regarding a family heirloom revolver. Here is the message:

I am looking for info on a 44 Russian revolver that belongs to my father in law, and has been in his family since the train-robber days. My wife will inherit it eventually and it will be passed on to one of our 5 kids. It was originally purchased by train engineer for protection and was even borrowed by a sheriff at some point who shot a n'er-do-well in the foot with it.

My father in law has recently fired it with some black powder/not-so-smokeless powder, but could not find any cases or loaded cartridges tonight. He has asked me to look into reloading for it and I am trying to verify that it is what it is.

External markings:

Along the barrel rib: Smith&Wesson Springfield Mass USA Pat Jul 10.60, Jan 17, Feb 17, July 11.65 & Aug 24.69 (copied exactly, July is spelled both as July and Jul)

Over the cylinder: US (perpendicular to the text above)

Base of the grip: 2xxx

Added on this post:
Barrel length 8"
Cylinder length 1.5"

 

[Masterpiece]

greentick,

Welcome to the Forum!! What you have there is a First Model S&W American Revolver that was most likely shipped in the First Government Military Contract in 1871. Your Serial Number falls into that range & if you would care to send me a PM with the Full Serial Number I'd be happy to look it up for you. I'm assuming it takes a Center-Fire Cartridge which would be the 44 S&W American Cartridge. If you look into the cartridge chamber & don't see a distinctive line about two-thirds of the way down the chamber it takes the 44 S&W. If a line is seen,it will most likely be chambered for a 44 Russian Cartridge,but this is highly unlikely judging by the Serial Number. This would have originally had Wooden Grips with a Military Inspectors Cartouche. The Checkered Pearl Grips it now exhibits would have been added at a later period. It is possible that this could have originally been finished in Nickel,but without some better photos of specific areas it's hard to tell. Having provenance to your family makes this a treasured keepsake to pass along & has some considerable value. Especially if you can document it's past history. Hopes this clears up some of your questions.

Take Care!!

 

[murphydog]

This one looks to be a good candidate for a factory historical letter from Roy Jinks, here is the link from the S & W website:

Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

 

[handejector]

You have a very historical gun.
It appears to be a First Model American.
This is S&W's FIRST top-break.

1000 were bought by the U.S. Gov- 800 blue, 200 nickel.
Yours appears to be original nickel as far as I can see by the pics.

Is there a tiny letter "A" above and below the cylinder on the left side of the frame? It should be located about the center of the cyl window.

Get a letter on that gun!!
Send some good pics, particularly of the markings. Look for those litte "A"'s and a small "P" on the right side of the ejector housing under the barrel. There should also be an A and a P (one each) in two of the cylinder flutes.
Here is another way to find the Letter form-
Sticky: Information about the SWCA
Don't be afraid to include a DETAILED description and pics for the historian in addition to what the letter form asks for. If you include your phone number, he MAY even call on such an early gun.

FABULOUS gun!
A very valuable gun!

 

[greentick]

Whoa! Thanks for the links. We are all into history and this will blow his mind. I am going to try and get a factory letter on the sly but he may figure out we're up to something and find this site on his own. I have to take some measurements before sending the request form.

 

[Roy G. Jinks]

Neat gun if you want information you can contact me at (email address sent via PM) and I will try and help. Roy G. Jinks, Historian, Smith & Wesson

 

[greentick]

Roy, I didn't get a PM from you with your email, please resend. I have the pistol now, my wife managed to get it "for cleaning and measuring." I will take some better pics to send on to you, as well as take some measurements. Thanks!

 

[handejector]

Roy, I didn't get a PM from you with your email, please resend.

I edited the email out, and I PM'd it to you.

Have you looked for the A's and P's ??

 

[greentick]

Missed the email, got it now. There is some corrosion in the flutes, but I think I have a decent pic of an A. I also found some markings on the rear of the cylinder, maybe an 8 and another character I can't make out. Will get an email out to Roy tonight after I eat something (just got home from work). Thanks for the help all, you have my wife now taunting me that she owns the most expensive gun in the house...

To top it off, Davy Crockett is her uncle somewhere up the way... tho they always thought he was sort of a scoundrel (too much booze and rabblerousing).

 

[diamond_c]

There is your excuse to buy a Registered Magnum.......or two.

 

[greentick]

Just to update you guys. I have corresponded with Roy Jinks. This pistol is one of the 200 nickel plated Model 3 American First Model bought by the US Army in 1871. It went on the the western frontier. My wife and I have been piecing the rest of the story together from there.

In my wife's family, the first known possessor was "Justin" Crockett who was a Justice of the Peace in Mulberry Arkansas in the late 1800s (still have to 100% verify the JotP part, he may have been the Postmaster and his brother was the JotP or vice-versa). Justin's sister was my wife's Grandmother's Grandmother and she passed away in 1895 to give some perspective. Justin passed it to his nephew, Frank D., who was my Father in Law's Grandfather. Frank passed it to my Father in Law. He has designated my wife as the next recipient.

Roy and you all have been great and the last couple of days have been a trip. I've lost a few hours of sleep between researching, messaging, cleaning, measuring and photographing. But, it's been a blast and I have learned quite a bit. Thanks to all who contributed bits of info. We are plotting the surprise on my father in law for a couple of weekends from now. All of his kids will be in town. As far as he knows, I am cleaning and measuring so we can do some reloads for it. Thanks again. Todd

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Todd,

Thanks for the update!!

Very glad to hear that Roy has verified it being One of the 200 "Original" Nickel-Plated Americans!! You've got yourself a Fine Piece of Early American Western History & hopefully you'll be able to document some more of it's history tied to your wife's ancestory. It sounds as though you've gotten off to a great start!! Please keep us informed as you go along. Glad we may have been of some help!!

Also,as far as your thoughts on working up some loads to shoot!! First,and foremost,make sure your Revolver is in Sound Mechanical Condition to shoot!! Timing,Bore,Etc.!! We sure wouldn't want to hear of an accident now would we?? Secondly,when working up loads for these,make sure you load any cartridges to the lowest pressures possible!! Also,these Americans take a Larger Dia. Bullet than most Standard 44 Caliber's. The Bullet Diameter is .432-.434" compared to .427"-.429" as is used in most other 44's of the period. I believe there's a company or two that reproduce these cartridges for Cowboy Action Shooting you may want to check into as well. Most Cowboy Action Shooting Ammo is loaded pretty conservatively!! If I can remember their names I'll PM you,but maybe someone will come along & let you know. That will also give you some fresh brass to work with. !!!!!Be Careful!!!!!

All the best!!

 

[Hondo44]

Brass can be made by shortening 41 Mag brass, but it is available already made up. Just google for it.

What a great piece of history you have.

 

[handejector]

Share some more pics sometime, please.
I believe I might shoot that one once or twice and retire it after a really good cleaning.
Glad we could help.

 

[greentick]

Share some more pics sometime, please.
I believe I might shoot that one once or twice and retire it after a really good cleaning.
Glad we could help.

As requested, more pics. Please give me a pass for blotting out the SN. It's not my pistol and I'd like to respect my FILs privacy, especially since he has no idea about all this yet.

If anyone has any links to old advertisement images that would be cool, I'd like to put something together for this piece.

Masterpiece: buffaloarms.com has brass($13/20pcs), cast bullets and even bullet moulds for 44 American. It would be cheaper tho to buy 41mag brass and cut it down. I plan on using like 3.5gr of titegroup(I have it on hand) under a 218gr(I think) which should be fairly low pressure.

 

[greentick]

more pics

More pics. Will keep you posted if I gather more intel. My wife has to interrogate a local asset in Arkansas (her great aunt).

 

[handejector]

Fabulous.
Thanks.
In my opinion from these pics, that gun wears the original nickel.

 

[handejector]

Even if it will never be sold, DO get the letter for FIL.
He will love it. It will give much history of the model, and probably contain a good bit about how special that gun is.
Well worth $50.

 

[Nightowl]

At this point, if it were mine, the firing pin would never get close to a primer! If it did, it would be black powder only. It was not designed for smokeless powder. Just my opinion.

 

[Hondo44]

If I loaded for it, I'd use a non-corrosive blackpowder sustitute like Triple 7 to keep the pressure down and make cleaning much easier.