44 Russian “GALLERY” UMC

[BMur]

Just doing some research and stumbled upon this. I thought the antique target collector might think this interesting.
I've never heard of such a thing.
By that I mean the manufacturer actually suggesting in writing the operator/ buyer use a pencil to reseat bullets that have "shifted" in transit? The paper advisory notice was inside the original box.
As a reloader I personally see that as a significant problem.

Properly loaded bullets will not shift in normal transit. They better not! Bouncing around on horseback, in a buggy, riding a train, or even in the back of your 4 wheeler on a hunting trip. They should never "shift in transit".
I'm pretty sure this antique factory box dates to the 1890's so likely black powder load.

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

Without knowing any more about the powder loading, I suspect that these gallery loads are black powder, and this is good advice. The gallery loaded bullets are sunk way down in the case and there is no way to crimp them. I suspect that they might creep in the case when shipped and their use without the reseating with a 'pencil' might be detrimental to the revolver.

 

[rct269]

I don't recall who said it, but something along the lines of "A black powder load with an air space is the definition of a pipe bomb!"---as in "detrimental to the revolver"!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I don't really like to shoot ammo which can be detrimental to my revolver.
Especially really old collectors ammo.
Way Too valuable and potentially dangerous to shoot!

 

[JSR III]

By name I am assuming that these rounds were designed for use in shooting galleries. As such, the rounds as well as the firearms are typically owned by the facility. It would be inherent on the gallery owner to want to check the ammo as it is their firearm that would be at risk not to mention any liability attached to a mishap.

One must also take into consideration that these rounds were produced back in an era when it was still OK to run with scissors, drink from the garden hose and yard darts (jarts) had yet to be invented. Actually I believe that you could also buy cocaine and heroin over the counter in various medicines.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I shot 2 boxes of these, a red box and a green box, at my partners horse farm. We shot them at a burn barrel for about 30 feet. We used my first New Model #3. Some just dented the barrel. It was then I decided I would not carry it as a backup in my patrol car.

 

[Truckman]

It was then I decided I would not carry it as a backup in my patrol car.

"A man's got to know his limitations" - H. Callahan

...Ben

 

[ralph7]

It says "round bullet" on the box.
If it is actually a sphere I can see where a crimp would be detrimental to the integrity of said sphere.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

It says "round bullet" on the box.
If it is actually a sphere I can see where a crimp would be detrimental to the integrity of said sphere.

Yes
Some of the loading tools had 4 round ball cavities.

 

[glowe]

I don't recall who said it, but something along the lines of "A black powder load with an air space is the definition of a pipe bomb!"---as in "detrimental to the revolver"!!

Ralph Tremaine

. . . AHEM . . . !

 

[BMur]

Black powder?

I shot 2 boxes of these, a red box and a green box, at my partners horse farm. We shot them at a burn barrel for about 30 feet. We used my first New Model #3. Some just dented the barrel. It was then I decided I would not carry it as a backup in my patrol car.

Don,
Were they Black powder? Big white puff of smoke or no?

Murph

 

[rct269]

It says "round bullet" on the box.
If it is actually a sphere I can see where a crimp would be detrimental to the integrity of said sphere.

Actually, it's very unlikely one could see where a crimp would be detrimental, because the round ball bullet in any and all gallery loads I know anything about (which was only two up until now) is seated DEEP within the cartridge case.

In the not so sure department, I can't recall noticing any crimp at the case mouth on any of these gallery loads---and I figure if there was one, the bullet would just shove it out of the way as it passed by----no harm, no foul.

Ralph Tremaine

Here are the specs for the two gallery loads I know about:

.32-44 S&W (with a case length of an inch--thereabouts): 6 grains of black powder under a 50 grain round ball bullet

.38-44 S&W (with a case length of 1 7/16 of an inch---although I've heard of shorter cases for gallery loads) under a 70 grain round ball on top of 20 grains of black powder. (Given the very clear advantage of the 1 7/16" case (ZERO throat!!), I'm hard pressed to understand why anybody in their right mind would come up with a shorter case.)

I'm thinking anybody with any imagination at all is going to see those balls WAY down inside those cases!

Either or any way, those balls are WAY down inside!

 

[Jim Watson]

I had a .38-44 Target that shot well, but I never got 'round to trying the Gallery Load which I had read was a round ball all the way down on 5 grains of black. I also read that the light charge behind the light ball did not burn well and it was a bad fouler.

 

[minconrevo]

Comparing the font used on the "warning" slip of paper and the ammo boxes, they appear to be decades in time apart. Was the warning slip inside the ammo box?

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Comparing the font used on the "warning" slip of paper and the ammo boxes, they appear to be decades in time apart. Was the warning slip inside the ammo box?

I noticed that too. The font looks more modern to me.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[iby]

Comparing the font used on the "warning" slip of paper and the ammo boxes, they appear to be decades in time apart. Was the warning slip inside the ammo box?

The UMCCo merged with Remington circa 1912 so likely before that date for the paper

 

[BMur]

Gallery load

Researching the origin of the GALLERY LOAD what you will find is it was originally designed for indoor shooting. Technically, it is not a Target load. It's a plinking load designed for fun shooting at close range.
Any bullet loaded with either black powder or smokeless should "never" move or slide back and forth up and down within in the case.
In todays loading world that's an error in loading. No question.
That bullet movement changes the pressure curve achieved when discharged. Not a good thing.
Loading ball rounds even today for say a 38 Special or 44 Mag I've never had a ball move in the case. When you load or press fit the ball into the case it should be a snug fit to begin with. By Running the case into a sizing die after pressing the ball to the desired depth, only up to the location of the ball, will prevent it from moving. It's a simple procedure that works well.
Factory loaded ammunition having this problem is a loading error. No way around it. It's beyond me why they would do that and expect the customer to correct the loading error with a pencil.
Even the pencil trick won't reliably work since recoil could also move the loose ball.
Any way you look at this it's a ridiculous concept. Load it right and the ball won't move.

Murph

 

[BMur]

It's real

Comparing the font used on the "warning" slip of paper and the ammo boxes, they appear to be decades in time apart. Was the warning slip inside the ammo box?

My first post. Paper in box. Please re-read.
We can claim anything isn't original once a box is opened. Why would someone fake this? I think it's 100% authentic!
Look at Ideal/Lyman instruction sheets inside resizing boxes. They look odd also.
Those are real. I've seen enough of them. See attached photos. Font is different on these also.
Murph

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

My first post. Paper in box. Please re-read.
We can claim anything isn't original once a box is opened. Why would someone fake this? I think it's 100% authentic!
Look at Ideal/Lyman instruction sheets inside resizing boxes. They look odd also.
Those are real. I've seen enough of them. See attached photos. Font is different on these also.
Murph

I didn't want to imply that there is anything nefarious or any
shenanigans are going on here. I think it is possible that the
warning was inserted some time later after they were
manufactured.

What strikes me is that the warning sheet uses a font that
doesn't have any serifs. The Ideal resizing die instruction
has characters that still have serifs on some of the characters
and hence have an "older" look (to me).

Cheers!
Webb

 

[rct269]

And up there in Post #10, where I was not too subtly reminded by that "AHEM...!", it was indeed the Honorable Mr. Lowe who schooled me in pipe bombs---and such like----HE who also has very likely forgotten more than most folks know about black powder loads, shooting, and everything else! I wouldn't be surprised to learn he makes his own powder---and it's probably better than anything you can buy!

Ralph Tremaine