44 Russian “GALLERY” UMC

[BMur]

Later inserted

Hi There,


I didn't want to imply that there is anything nefarious or any
shenanigans are going on here. I think it is possible that the
warning was inserted some time later after they were
manufactured.

What strikes me is that the warning sheet uses a font that
doesn't have any serifs. The Ideal resizing die instruction
has characters that still have serifs on some of the characters
and hence have an "older" look (to me).

Cheers!
Webb

Thanks Webb,

I agree. Actually, in my opinion they likely caught the mal-function in machine loading at the factory and instead of recalling the bad batch decided to send out the little piece of paper for perhaps Distributors to insert. Machine Dies most definitely do wear out. Especially when you are punching hundreds of thousands of loads through them. A bad batch is very possible. That piece of paper/pencil concept sure wouldn't fly today. Today it would be a recall!

Murph

 

[rct269]

I had a .38-44 Target that shot well, but I never got 'round to trying the Gallery Load which I had read was a round ball all the way down on 5 grains of black. I also read that the light charge behind the light ball did not burn well and it was a bad fouler.

The standard gallery load for the .38-44 is 6 grains of powder under a 70 grain round ball-------20 grains of powder under 146 grain round nose bullet for the regular load. And as an aside, and perhaps picking a nit, black powder doesn't "burn" so much as it explodes.

And speaking of fouling, in an experiment with throat length, I was loading 20 grains powder (measured, not weighed)/lubed wad/20 grains of corn meal/ball (to have the ball flush with the chamber mouth) in a Ruger Old Army (.457" ball). There was a NOTICEABLE difference in crud, both inside and outside the revolver---a bunch cleaner with the corn meal. (And there was a staggering improvement in group size from no corn meal to 20 grains worth----from 4" at 25 yards to one ragged hole completely covered by a quarter (1" +/-)-----6 rounds each.) I expected an improvement, but NOTHING like that!. The proof of the pudding was there was an almost linear improvement between no spacer, and 5, 10, and 15 grains of corn meal.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Yes and smelled like rotten eggs.

 

[glowe]

I have made up a similar load since I have a Kentucky rifle that shoots .429 round ball. Simple process to load lightly and shoot all day. Using a combination of round ball and 1/4" nitro card pressed lightly in the case against the powder allowed enough room for a crimp right at the ball, so no movement forward or backward. You can get about 10 grains of 3F in the case if I recall correctly. Shooting is like an airgun, no recoil and you have to wait for the ball to hit the paper. Lobbing these balls around can produce some very accurate short range loads. Shot them in my 44 DA for some time without issue other than lots of fouling even with the light loads.

 

[CptCurl]

It's all in the history books.

Here are two books I recommend to understand late 19th Century target shooting and this gallery ammunition:

The Modern Pistol and How to Shoot It, by Walter Winans, G.P. Putnam's Sons 1919
​

and

Automatic Pistol Shooting, by Walter Winans, G.P. Putnam's Sons 1915
​

The latter is not entirely about automatic pistols and contains chapters covering revolvers and gallery shooting - particularly Chapter VIII. In that chapter, Mr. Winans addresses the very issue being discussed in this thread:

"When shooting gallery ammunition in which the bullets are "seated" low down , it is best to have a groove line impressed in the cartridge shell to prevent the bullet working up; if you have not got this impression in the shell, look into the cartridges before putting them into the chambers, as a bullet may have worked itself up, which would cause a weak, low shot. Push the bullet down with a loading rod, or pencil, before you insert the cartridge into the chamber, if you find it shifted. Also, if, after firing a few shots from a revolver with this ammunition, you, for any cause, stop and want to re-load the chambers which have been fired , it is as well to take out all the cartridges that have not been fired and examine them, as the jar of firing may have started some of the bullets."​

Most of you will recognize Mr. Winans as the holder of numerous world's records, some of which are yet to be surpassed. His primary tool was the S&W .44 Russian or the New Model 3 in .44, but he also competed with other prominent world-class target pistols such as the Gastinne Renette (also chambered in .44 Russian).

Many of the records were attained using this very U.M.C. gallery ammunition, the subject of this thread.

The two books mentioned can be downloaded for free from Project Gutenberg, and possibly other sources.

Curly

 

[6string]

I've posted this picture before.

You can see the deep cannelure in the case. It acts as a depth stop for the round ball. The powder charge is black powder and is measured volumetrically to fill the case when the ball is seated.
This type of load was handloaded far more often than it was purchased as loaded ammo.
I'm sure UMC was just trying to capitalize on what was a popular practice.

 

[glowe]

The standard gallery load for the .38-44 is 6 grains of powder under a 70 grain round ball-------20 grains of powder under 146 grain round nose bullet for the regular load. And as an aside, and perhaps picking a nit, black powder doesn't "burn" so much as it explodes . . .

Ralph Tremaine

Since you are writing about a 38/44 Target, I will add an image of the round. It had a full length case that ended just at the face of the cylinder of a New Model 3 Target revolver, and a fully seated bullet that sat just below the top of the brass as the image shows. I had always assumed that the original factory loading would have been 44 grains of BP, but found it referred to the standard caliber of the revolver, not the loading. I have never taken a cartridge apart to check. The only gun I know that chambered the round was the New Model 3.

 

[Oldmanwesson]

Here are two original boxes of the 38-44 and 32-44. The 38-44 is a target load with 20 grains of powder and a 146 grain round bullet, the other is a gallery load with 6 grains of powder and a 50 grain round bullet. The 38-44 is a straight case, no crimp and no crease to hold the bullet. I have not opened the other box. I shoot my 38-44 using 357 mag brass and seating the bullet the same as the original, not crimped. I have never had one "travel up". It's a tight enough fit. The 357 is a bit shorter than the original but I figure that's okay because the original was made for the 1 7/16 cylinder and UMC did not (to my knowledge) make a longer cartridge for the 1 9/16 cylinder. So, the cartridge would also be a bit shorter in a 1 9/16 gun.

 

[glowe]

All 38/44 cartridges measure just under 1.5". Original cartridges had a .361" LRN bullet, the same as the standard 38 S&W round, that weighed 146 grains. 32/44 and 38/44 guns are rare, with 4,333 were built and most of them were in 32-44.

I used to think that the "44" meant 44 grains like all other BP loadings, but learned it was referring to the original caliber of the New Model 3 revolver, not the load.

357 Remington Max is what I use in my Single Shot pistol chambered in 38/44, but that is another story. It has to be trimmed some for the New Model 3, but being longer than 357 Mag casings, which are just over 1.25" long, the trimmed 357 Rem Mag case will fill the chambers stem to stern. One can easily seat a .360 bullet inside that case. The gallery load not only reduced the powder charge and used a round ball, it was also much shorter. A picture of a box of this ammo is below with a picture of the two cartridges compared.

 

[BMur]

Gallery load

It's been suggested that target shooters would use GALLERY LOADS for competitive Target shooting? That's something I'd have to see to believe. The Gallery load was not designed for Target shooting. It's a plinking round.

The Ball does not have enough surface contact with the rifling to perform well enough in competitive shooting.

Turn of the century TARGET SHOOTERS clearly used Wadcutters as evident from documented and recorded targets. Those are Wadcutters that made those perfect round holes in that paper. Those aren't balls. No advantage to using balls when scoring targets. The early term was SHARP SHOULDER. Prints a perfect circle on the paper to guarantee an accurate score card.

Often your bullet would hit close to a higher ring. If the impact mark was not clear you may be scored the lower number. Often the winner of a shooting contest scores only 1 number higher than second place so it's often very close.


Murph

 

[RMFnLA]

If they are black powder you will need to disassemble the gun for a complete cleaning after firing.

I'd stick them on a shelf and leave them there.

 

[glowe]

I have never seen or even read of a 38/44 Target or Gallery cartridge with wadcutters. If you have any evidence, please post. The wadcutter was not invented until 1900 and probably never made it into this caliber. Since the cartridge dates back to the late 1880s, it was always either a round ball or LRN.

If a box states it is black powder, it is post-1900. All antique ammunition boxes simply stated the amount of powder in grains and all those were black powder.

 

[BMur]

Target shooting

Target shooters during that early period and even today do not shoot factory loaded ammo.
Target shooters were the origin of Match Loading. That's where the term came from. They created the various Wadcutters before they became available for public sale or design and the fact that factory loaded target ammo did not include Wadcutters should tell you something as well.
They can claim and tell tall tales even publish material that leads the reader to believe they shot factory ammo? Or ball ammo? They did not!
They match loaded their own ammo. If you read what they write they can't help but talk in depth about reloading. That should tell you something. It's real simple actually. Factory ammo is not good enough for match shooting.
The only documented shooting matches that I am aware of where the shooter is required to shoot specific ammo provided is the Modern Olympics.
Not unlike " Trick shooters" using smooth bore pistols and "shot ammo" for trick shots. Target shooters would match load each and every round. The absolutely last thing a target shooter would convey verbally is what load and bullet type they use. That's like giving out your PIN number. They'd have absolutely no problem telling you what load they aren't using though with a gleam in their eye.

Murph

 

[CptCurl]

I do not claim to be an expert on the matter. However, the targets published in Winan's books (such as the one in the post 30 above) say they were shot with U.M.C. gallery ammunition.

I have a set of Gastinne Renette breechloading target pistols chambered in .44 Russian.

Pair of Gastinne Renette Breechloading Dueling or Target Pistols

The mould is for a spherical ball. The powder dipper is for a very light charge of powder. They wouldn't use these tools to assemble "plinking" ammunition.

Curly

 

[bcowern]

And as an aside, and perhaps picking a nit, black powder doesn't "burn" so much as it explodes.
Ralph Tremaine

I think your picking has roused the nit:


"Explosion
An explosion is a sudden, rapid release of energy that produces potentially damaging pressures.
When a gaseous fuel fills a space, it needs to mix to a certain air-fuel concentration to create an explosive atmosphere. When an ignition source is introduced into the explosive atmosphere, it creates a flame that travels away from the ignition site and expands the burned gases behind the flame front. When an explosion is confined, it creates a restraint of the expanding gases and results in an increased pressure within the enclosure. When the enclosure ruptures, this is what most people think of when they hear the term explosion. However, explosions don't always need to be confined. The flame speed in explosions can be quick enough to produce compression waves and cause damage with little or no confinement.
The damage potential of an explosion depends on the pressure that is created from the explosion as well as how quickly energy is released from the explosion. Explosions can be either detonations or deflagrations depending on their flame speed.

Deflagration
A deflagration is an explosion where the flame speed is lower than the speed of sound, which is approximately equal to 335 m/sec (750 mph).
Explosives that deflagrate are known as low explosives. The actual speed of the explosion can vary from 1–350 m/s (2–780 mph). Peak pressures produced by low explosives are orders of magnitude lower than those produced by high explosives, and the damage inflicted by low explosives can vary greatly depending on the fuel and confinement. For example, if black powder is ignited outside of containment, it just fizzles, but when it is confined, it creates an explosion that can propel bullets.
In addition to the black powder example, examples of deflagrations involving low explosives include the ignition of propane gas for a cooking grill and fuel powering of a combustion engine in a car.

Detonation
A detonation is an explosion where the flame speed is greater than the speed of sound.
Detonations are louder and often more destructive than deflagrations. While deflagration occurs when a fuel and oxidizer (typically air) mix, a detonation doesn't always need an external oxidizer. Explosives that detonate are referred to as high explosives and have a detonation speed in the range of 2,000–8,200 m/sec (4,500–18,000 mph). High explosives are typically designed to cause destruction—often for demolition, mining, or warfare.
Examples of high explosives that detonate include dynamite, TNT, and C4, a plastic-based explosive.

Learn more
Hopefully, this helped shed some light on these common terms you hear when discussing types of explosions. For more information on explosions, check out the 21st edition of the NFPA Fire Protection Handbook®, which contains several chapters on the topic, including =Chapter 2-8, "Explosions," Chapter 6-16, "Explosives and Blasting Agents," Chapter 17-8, "Explosion Prevention and Protection," and Chapter 18-6, "Deflagration Venting."

bcowern

 

[glowe]

. . . I have a set of Gastinne Renette breechloading target pistols chambered in .44 Russian.

Pair of Gastinne Renette Breechloading Dueling or Target Pistols . . .

Found a set online and they state made in 1889. I have to ask how target pistols could be shot well without some type of adjustable target sights? I do not see any on the guns or in the case.