.44 spc,Truth or Myth?
- Thread starter cherrypointmarine
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I think the limitations would be in the strength of the gun, the cartridge case and the ability of the shooter to handle recoil, especially if the gun is light in weight. With modern powders, it should be possible to load a 44 special case to equal classic 44 magnum performance but why push it? Why not just get yourself a 44 magnum gun that is designed for that level of power? I would be very wary of pushing balloon head cases to high pressure. Good luck and be safe.
Davethegundoctor
Member
WHY!!! Go buy a 44 Magnum!
All that "hot rodding" of the .44 Special has been done. Hence the .44 Magnum. Why start all over again. Get a good reloading manual and follow the recommendations in it. If you want .44 Mag. performance buy a .44 Mag.
When I finally track down my Model 24 I'll be following this advice. Until then I'm loading. 44 Special and .44 Mag. for my Model 29.
When I finally track down my Model 24 I'll be following this advice. Until then I'm loading. 44 Special and .44 Mag. for my Model 29.
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44 mag loads in a 44 spl?
I would say absolutely not! First of all, regardless of the gun, I believe all .44 special guns have thinner cylinder walls, therefore weaker, than .44 mags. While modern .44 specials are certainly stronger than the old ones, and the modern .44 specials can handle loads hotter that what is published in the reloading manuals for . 44 special loads, I would not consider loading ammo to be shot in a .44 special to approach .44 mag loads.
I have only one .44 special, a Ruger Blackhawk of modern manufacture. I load it about to shoot primarily 210-215 grain cast bullets at 900 FPS. This is "warmer" than what I can find published in the reloading manuals, but does not come close to .44 mag ballistics. John Taffin, one of the foremost experts on this subject has published data hotter than this, but I am very reluctant to use it.
Personally, I simply "pet" my S&W revolvers and almost never load ammo to the max for them. I consider .44 mag, factory loaded JHPs to be very warm and would never consider a load that hot in a .44 special. Why risk it?
I would say absolutely not! First of all, regardless of the gun, I believe all .44 special guns have thinner cylinder walls, therefore weaker, than .44 mags. While modern .44 specials are certainly stronger than the old ones, and the modern .44 specials can handle loads hotter that what is published in the reloading manuals for . 44 special loads, I would not consider loading ammo to be shot in a .44 special to approach .44 mag loads.
I have only one .44 special, a Ruger Blackhawk of modern manufacture. I load it about to shoot primarily 210-215 grain cast bullets at 900 FPS. This is "warmer" than what I can find published in the reloading manuals, but does not come close to .44 mag ballistics. John Taffin, one of the foremost experts on this subject has published data hotter than this, but I am very reluctant to use it.
Personally, I simply "pet" my S&W revolvers and almost never load ammo to the max for them. I consider .44 mag, factory loaded JHPs to be very warm and would never consider a load that hot in a .44 special. Why risk it?
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Pressure would go up faster in a smaller case meaning so would velocity. The question is can a 44 Special SAFELY exceed 44 Magnum velocity? My guess is no, it cannot. The longer case and thus larger powder capacity of the Magnum will always give it more potential than the Special has and it can go faster at safer pressures. But either can be blown up by taking the load too far.
OP
cherrypointmarine
Member
Guy's, when I posted this, I never thought it would go so far. As someone said, there is quite a following for the .44spc on this Forum. The article is in this months Guns magazine. It is on the back page under Campfire Tales. It does talk about John Lachuk, and in the 3rd paragraph it states what he put in an article in the early 1960's. That is where I got the idea to ask this question. I doubt they are stating that, just that it has been put in ink at another time. I am sorry if anyone found offense at my question. I used to shoot 44spc out of my M629-2 Mt Revolver, and I fell in love with the round. I was just curious. Thanks
Exactly...big +1
If you want a magnum, get one....don't mess with your Special...
chuckfw
US Veteran
This is a joke....right? If not, the answer is NO, it can never be safely loaded to be more powerful than a .44 magnum! It will destroy your revolver, maybe your hand and/or face and most certainly your reputation as a reloader.
roundels
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Don't. It always amazes me to read queries like this. If you want .44 Special ballistics, buy a .44 Special. If you want .44 Mag ballistics, buy a .44 Magnum. Otherwise, pix of what's left of your hand just might end up on Google images...and you'll always be known as that Gomer who blew up a perfectly good handgun.
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I have a couple 44Mags I load for, so I don't have to over load my 44 Spl if I want to see a big muzzle flash.
That said, I just finished developing a load for my 44 Spl (an old Charter Arms 3" Bulldog). This is a light gun, so my hand gives out before the gun.
I loaded Hodgen's Universal Clays (new name seems to be "Universal" no "Clays"). This powder is similar in speed to Unique, but meters better. I loaded with the 240 lead SWC bullet.
4 gr produced a very mild load that my wife and grandkids could shoot all day. It is the most accurate load I ever shot in this gun.
At 7 gr I had all the recoil I could handle.
That said, I just finished developing a load for my 44 Spl (an old Charter Arms 3" Bulldog). This is a light gun, so my hand gives out before the gun.
I loaded Hodgen's Universal Clays (new name seems to be "Universal" no "Clays"). This powder is similar in speed to Unique, but meters better. I loaded with the 240 lead SWC bullet.
4 gr produced a very mild load that my wife and grandkids could shoot all day. It is the most accurate load I ever shot in this gun.
At 7 gr I had all the recoil I could handle.
jag312
Member
The .44 Special is the King of cartridges, and only the most intelligent and insightful of shooters, who just happen to be on this forum, can fully appreciate the cartridge.
Mike in SC
Member
Specials Only!
I value all of my .44 Specials too much to get into magnum territory (or even try!). The Skelton load of 7.5 grs Unique behind a 250 gr Keith SWC will do anything you need. If you want more, get a Model 29 or a Ruger SBH. Now to prove my love here are my .44 Specials. The top two are Model 28 conversions, a Rossi 720, Lipsey Blackhawk and a Lipsey Vaquero. The last image by itself is my latest, a 1980s vintage 624 that I got in a trade. Just needed an excuse to show off. All .44 Specials should be cherished.
I value all of my .44 Specials too much to get into magnum territory (or even try!). The Skelton load of 7.5 grs Unique behind a 250 gr Keith SWC will do anything you need. If you want more, get a Model 29 or a Ruger SBH. Now to prove my love here are my .44 Specials. The top two are Model 28 conversions, a Rossi 720, Lipsey Blackhawk and a Lipsey Vaquero. The last image by itself is my latest, a 1980s vintage 624 that I got in a trade. Just needed an excuse to show off. All .44 Specials should be cherished.
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Wally West
US Veteran
I'm always of the same opinion on questions like these. If you want 44Mag numbers, buy a 44Mag same as pushing a 30-06 into 300win mag territory. Why try to make something what it was not designed to be?
The only exception to this rule is in my 45LC Blackhawk using H110 and 265gr cast. I will push that very hard but the gun will take it without a doubt and I don't make a habit of it
The only exception to this rule is in my 45LC Blackhawk using H110 and 265gr cast. I will push that very hard but the gun will take it without a doubt and I don't make a habit of it
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Wally West
US Veteran
I'd take every chance to show them off too, Mike! Cool Beans
Frank46
US Veteran
Krogen, I saved that bag for years adding the few 44 special case I found over the years. At the time I had no idea that when the brass was gone I'd latch onto a 44 special revolver. And then later two more. Heck I have brass,loaded ammo and dies for the 35 rem cartridge but no rifle or carbine chambered in 35 rem. I had a buddy who sent me a complete centerfire assembly for the cadet martini as I wanted to change over from rimfire to centerfire and he wanted 22 hornet barrel I had for the martini he had wanted to convert to 22 hornet. Si I sent him a couple hundred 22 hornet new cases and all the 223 diameter bullets I could find. And I got the guts so to speak to convert my martini from rf to cf.Frank
Don't get me wrong here and don't flame me, but I wonder if some people are overlooking a critical aspect of cherrypointmarine's original question.
His question as I understood it was can 44 specials be safely loaded to velocity levels that exceed modern (watered down) factory 44 magnum velocities. Looking at some ballistic tables for commercial ammo I'm seeing several brands of factory 44 magnum ammo that clock between 1150-1250 fps (Winchester, Federal, Blazer).
I also see in some ballistics tables that some of the hotter 44 special SD rounds (CorBon, Underwood, Magsafe, Doubletap) get up into the same velocity range and some of the fastest ones are clocking even a little higher velocity than the mildest factory 44 magnums.
So, depending on which rounds you're comparing some of the top end 44 specials do run "hotter" (in terms of velocity) than some of the bottom end FACTORY 44 magnums. I'm certainly not advocating "hot rodding" the 44 special - not at all - and I'm not trying to start an argument, either.
Just sayin'...
His question as I understood it was can 44 specials be safely loaded to velocity levels that exceed modern (watered down) factory 44 magnum velocities. Looking at some ballistic tables for commercial ammo I'm seeing several brands of factory 44 magnum ammo that clock between 1150-1250 fps (Winchester, Federal, Blazer).
I also see in some ballistics tables that some of the hotter 44 special SD rounds (CorBon, Underwood, Magsafe, Doubletap) get up into the same velocity range and some of the fastest ones are clocking even a little higher velocity than the mildest factory 44 magnums.
So, depending on which rounds you're comparing some of the top end 44 specials do run "hotter" (in terms of velocity) than some of the bottom end FACTORY 44 magnums. I'm certainly not advocating "hot rodding" the 44 special - not at all - and I'm not trying to start an argument, either.
Just sayin'...
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One other point to add to BC 38 is one article in Guns and Ammo magazine. Some years ago when the .44 special was reintroduced, it ran a story of the special being equal and perhaps BETTER than the .44 mag. I read it thinking it was sales hype. But it went into the "killing" and performance of the .44 special. It stated it was equal and surpassed many .44 mag loads. I don't recall the components off the top of my head.
NOT VELOCITY & NOT PRESSURES !
I tried finding that magazine but had no luck. :-(
NOT VELOCITY & NOT PRESSURES !
I tried finding that magazine but had no luck. :-(
CScott
Member
Let's face it, when you're right, you're right.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
I just purchased a Redhawk in 357 mag with that very thick cylinder walls.
I wonder how hot I can load it, vgfvhujbh don't go there stop thinking bad thoughts. Lol I wonder how accurate the heavier frame will be.
I wonder how hot I can load it, vgfvhujbh don't go there stop thinking bad thoughts. Lol I wonder how accurate the heavier frame will be.
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