.44 Spl handloads: accuracy issues

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Daimler1989

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Hi,

while trying to find a suitable .44 Spl load for both our M624 and M696, I'm puzzled at the moment.

This is what happens: I use Lovex D032 (which is said to be similar to AA #2) with good results, no matter which bullet weight (200 LFN, 200 LSWC Teflon coated Fiocchi, 255 Keith) -load weight is 5.5 for the 200 grs, 4.8 for the 255.
I wanted to get a better punch so I tried Lovex D036 (which is said to be similar to AA #5). With 255 gr and 6.3 grs load I get very good accuracy. With 200 gr accuracy lacks - I tried 7 grs (very wimpy, lots of unburnt powder), 7.5 (still quite soft, unburnt powder) and now 7.8 (pleasant to shoot, a bit more punch, but still unburnt powder). COL is 1.456". I use a Lee factory crimp. Sooty cases with each load. Accuracy is mediocre, 5 rounds group about 2" at 10 yards (in comparison the 255grs Keith/6.3 grs groups 12 rounds about 1.6" at 10 yards)

Where is my problem? I can't imagine Lovex D036/AA #5 being unsuitable with the 200 gr lead bullets. I stopped at 7.8 grs because of the load data published by Accurate. They give 7.8 grs as the MAX with a 220 gr lead bullet, and with the possible difference between the two propellants (although it is said they were similar) I didn't want to go further. Or is the 7.8 grs load still too light?

I appreciate any advice, esp. regarding AA #5 and 200 gr bullets.
 
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Sounds more like a crimp problem to me. Slower burning powders like 2 things:
Heavy loads
Heavy crimps

Change either one and you get sooty cases and unburnt powder along with poor accuracy.

I've shot powders as slow as h110 & 2400 in the 44spl's. A heavy roll crimp is a good thing.
 
Forrest r said:
Sounds more like a crimp problem to me. Slower burning powders like 2 things:
Heavy loads
Heavy crimps

Change either one and you get sooty cases and unburnt powder along with poor accuracy.

I've shot powders as slow as h110 & 2400 in the 44spl's. A heavy roll crimp is a good thing.
Click to expand...

...and magnum primers help too.
 
Generally the slower powders....

The slower powders do better from warm to hot loads and don't burn well with lighter loads and leave a lot of unburned mess. I'm not familiar at all with the powder you are using, but Acc#5 is close to Unique and I don't know why it wouldn't be more versatile in loading from the lower to mid ranges.
 
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44 SPL LOAD INFO

I have had success with the Lyman 429215 cast bullet w gas check and 6gr of Unique. I use a Large Rifle primer instead of pistol primers as I experienced pierced primers with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Moving to Rifle primers eliminated the issue, and also eliminated having to stock Large Pistol primers. The accuracy is good enough to get all touching at 15 yards, and a nice group at 25 yards. I size em .429 and lube with Alox 2138F

Regards

Dave
 
thanks for input. I suspect I might get those problems = unburnt powder and poor accuracy with 200 gr bullets, because the load is too low for the bullet weight. I didn't experience the same problems with the same powder and heavier bullets (255 gr Keith), so the clue might be bullet weight and load. I did some 50 round with 8 grs Lovex D036 and 200 grs bullets (together with a heavier crimp) and will try them on the range. If this does not do the trick, I will stick to the proven 5.5 grs Lovex D032 with the 200 gr bullets. I'm not sure how far to go with Lovex d036, there is no load data from the manufacturer for .44 Spl.
 
Daimler1989 said:
thanks for input. I suspect I might get those problems = unburnt powder and poor accuracy with 200 gr bullets, because the load is too low for the bullet weight. I didn't experience the same problems with the same powder and heavier bullets (255 gr Keith), so the clue might be bullet weight and load. I did some 50 round with 8 grs Lovex D036 and 200 grs bullets (together with a heavier crimp) and will try them on the range. If this does not do the trick, I will stick to the proven 5.5 grs Lovex D032 with the 200 gr bullets. I'm not sure how far to go with Lovex d036, there is no load data from the manufacturer for .44 Spl.
Click to expand...



Daimler

Some of us (me) might not be familiar with the powders you are using.
If you go to a faster powder with the 200gr bullets they may work better for you. I'm not familiar with the burning rate of your powders & I'm not sure if you can get some of the powders we mention.
I know from use Trail Boss will perform well with light loads, burn cleanly, & give good accuracy.
If you can give us a comparison (burn rate charts) between your powders & the ones we mention.
Thanks. Good shooting.
 
Both of those are ball powders, sometimes a magnum primer will do the trick in getting proper ignition and complete burn.
There is nothing wrong with the burn rate, they are correct for what you want. What I'm seeing is an incomplete ignition thing.
Can't hurt to try magnum primers before giving up on those powders. What with finding pistol powders about like finding hen's teeth now days .
Gary
 
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For lower pressure rounds in large cases, have not had good luck with aa-5 or aa-7. May have to do with inconsistent powder positioning, which can try checking for by rotating barrel skyward after each shot, then consistently bringing down to target.

Have had much better luck with "fluffy" powders in light to medium 44 special loads. The larger 255 gn swc use up some of that extra case space.
 
This is a wild guess , but is the OP'er in a non-USA location , and dosen't have access to the usual selection of powders we are used to ?

And I am feeling a general sense of scepticism of how close those powders are to the Accurate Arms powders in question.

The 200gr loads with the second powder are showing indications of either too low in pressure for effecent burning , are major issues with case neck tension. If the bullet diameters and case neck expander are reasonably close to desired specifications, and you using a heavy crimp, then you need either a faster powder or a heavier charge.

We're already making an extrapolated guestimation with a "similar" powder. *personally* I would seek out any available data for the actual powders. I realize .44Spl is not the most popular cal for powder mfgs to publish , but I would look for comparisions with other known powders in other big bore cals.
 
thanks again,

just to clarify: I live in Germany, some US-made powders are not easily available. Lovex is made in Czechoslowakia, so it is very easy to get. Burn rate is about the same as Unique, Universal, Vectan Ba9 and in between Vihtavuori N330 and N340. Lovex D036 is said to be similar to AA #5, so I used load data for AA #5, which gives 8.3 grs with a 200 gr lead bullet as MAX. Some comparison between Lovex D036 and AA #5 data for other calibers show that D036 could be used with slightly higher loads with the same bullet type and weight than #5. Unique, Universal and Ba9 show very different load types for 200 gr lead bullets. For safety reasons I stopped at 8 grs now, but might be inclined to work it up to the #5 MAX.

Main problem here in Germany is not the availability of powders but all the fuzz with the permit to buy and store powders. You need a permit for 5 years and are only allowed to by 1/5 of the allowed quantity per year. Than you are not allowed to store more than 3 kg, in my case only 1.5 kg because there is no window in the attic where I have to store my powders. Three different handgun powders and my permit is stretched to the limit... That's why I have not much room to play with different powders
 
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I believe the burn rate of the AA5 equivalent needs the heaver bullet weight to burn it all. The faster powder can do that but the slower one needs more of the pressure caused by having a heavier bullet in the barrel longer, even though that time is measured in micro seconds. The overall pressure may be similar but the peak pressure is further down barrel and the lighter bullet is not providing enough resistance to hit peak pressure when the powder burn wants to get there.
 
U.S. made powders.....

Daimler1989 said:
thanks again,

just to clarify: I live in Germany, some US-made powders are not easily available.

Main problem here in Germany is not the availability of powders but all the fuzz with the permit to buy and store powders. You need a permit for 5 years and are only allowed to by 1/5 of the allowed quantity per year. Than you are not allowed to store more than 3 kg, in my case only 1.5 kg because there is no window in the attic where I have to store my powders. Three different handgun powders and my permit is stretched to the limit... That's why I have not much room to play with different powders
Click to expand...

1) Powders made in the U.S. aren't available in the U.S.:mad:

I'd probably have better luck finding Lovex.

2) We are trying our best to keep from getting into a situation with laws that interfere with
our favorite past time.:mad::mad:



1
 
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