444 Marlin vs 45/70 Government

[pharman]

Ohio has finally "got with the program" and will be allowing use of 444 Marlin or 45/70 Government for whitetail deer hunting next season. I am not real familiar with these cartridges. The idea of hunting whitetail with these does intrigue me. Anyone have any experience on one over the other? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanking you in advance...Roger

PS...I realize these are not cartridges used in S&W's, but I would appreciate any feedback on this. Thanks!

 

[Rangerpat]

As far as hunting whitetail deer either cartridge will work well.
I use a .45-70 partially for nostalgia, it's been around for over 130 years but the main reason I like it is because it can be hand loaded from mild to wild. You can hunt anything in North America with the round and some people have even used it in Africa on the "Big 5."
If you go for the .45-70 I recommend you pick up a copy of the book: Forty Years with the .45-70 Revised by Paul A. Matthews

 

[scott1970]

I've been a .45-70 junkie for several years now. Never hunted deer with one, but I've killed two nice hogs with the caliber. It anchored both right where they stood. I prefer my 405 gr. cast bullet over 38.5 gr. of IMR 4198, but Hornady's Leverevolution 325 gr. jacketed hollow point is superbly accurate if you choose shelf ammo. Just make sure to hit the vitals or you'll wreck lots of good meat. The Marlin Owner's forum has all the information on either caliber you'll ever want or need.

For kicks here are my three .45-70 rifles...

 

[Falguy]

Maybe I'm just a heretic
I much prefer the 444 Marlin. Better cases, less recoil and great bullet selection if you hand load using Bear Tooth Bullets.

There are also other good lead bullets and store-bought loaded ammunition


pharman
You said Ohio just started allowing the 444
In what type of firearm? Single shot or is a lever gun allowed?
If they allow a lever gun, There's a difference in Marlins. The old style(white spacer and no safety) has a 1:38 twist
A 250gr is what's need for this twist
If it's a Marlin with a safety/black spacer, it will have a 1;20 twist. As heavy a bullet as you can stand will be OK

Also. Do you hand load?

 

[klausinak]

For whitetails, I would say it's a toss up. I would say that the 45-70 is more versatile, you can go into much heavier bullets & depending on the platform get fairly close to 458 Win Mag or you can load lighter bullets in the "Trapdoor" section to give your shoulder a break.

Just my .02

-Klaus

 

[Hairtrigger]

Ammo for the 45\70 is easier to find
My issue is which to use, 375 win, 444 marlin, or 41mag

 

[Cal44]

No 444, but I have a 45-70 Marlin.

One added plus for the 45-70 is you can buy cowboy light loads for it -- easier on the shoulder for range shooting and you could hunt deer with cowboy loads if range wasn't too great.

26" octagonal barrel:

 

[vipermd]

45-70, As a double rifle, marlin lever or HR single shot. As stated above mild to wild and in the BFR revolver it is very sweet. The 444 is OK, but you need to use rifle bullets in it , not handgun bullets designed for lower velocity. The hornady 265 FTX is a very good choice for the 444. Both work well on deer, while the 45-70 can up the ante to large game- moose, big bear, Africa. Be Safe,

 

[Arik]

I think it's overkill for deer but I have used a 45/70 and it's a cool round. I prefer them in trapdoor or long barrel and long tube lever. Those short rifles in 45/70 just don't appeal to me

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Squarebutt]

They're both pretty heavy for whitetails, but they'll sure get the job done. I think a hard-cast lead slug out of either would be a good choice, and handloading opens a lot of opportunities. The .444 can use .44 pistol bullets for plinking and varmints after deer season. If .35 Remington, .356 and .375 Winchester are legal in OH, they're all great deer calibers, too.

 

[pharman]

Maybe I'm just a heretic
I much prefer the 444 Marlin. Better cases, less recoil and great bullet selection if you hand load using Bear Tooth Bullets.

There are also other good lead bullets and store-bought loaded ammunition


pharman
You said Ohio just started allowing the 444
In what type of firearm? Single shot or is a lever gun allowed?
If they allow a lever gun, There's a difference in Marlins. The old style(white spacer and no safety) has a 1:38 twist
A 250gr is what's need for this twist
If it's a Marlin with a safety/black spacer, it will have a 1;20 twist. As heavy a bullet as you can stand will be OK

Also. Do you hand load?

We will be allowed to use either single shot or lever action. I am leaning towards the single shot for nostalgia reasons (reminds me when I was young and that's all I had!). Also when I hunt with a single shot I REALLY take my time and aim correctly as I know I only have one shot. To answer your other question...No I do not hand load. Thanks for the response...Roger

 

[viceunit]

In addition to the 45-70 and 444 Marlin, the types of rifles being considered are .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson. (I know - some of these calibers do not make sense. Likely assembled by some bureaucrat.)

My 1894 Winchester .44 magnum is gonna get a work-out.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said already, both will do a good job. With the 444 you can load bullets from 200gr to 300gr which is more than enough for White Tail deer. If you want to hunt more than deer the 45-70 can be loaded with much heavier bullets and to 3 different powder levels.

In the 444 you can load a 300gr bullet to ~2000 fps, in the 45-70 you can match that with the Trapdoor loads and go much faster with the levergun loads and even more with the "modern rifle" loads. Add to that the ability to load 250gr to 500gr bullets I personally feel the 45-70 is a better choice of cartridge.

 

[chuckfw]

For deer or elk, the .444 Marlin with factory loads will easily do the job and not abuse your shoulder as much. Ammo is easy to find all over. It also has the advantage of being loaded with a vast array of bullets, but that's only good if you or someone you know hand loads. I have had mine for about 30 years, nice to shoot and accurate. Never had a 45-70.

 

[rburg]

I use a .45-70 partially for nostalgia, it's been around for over 130 years

So you became a Ranger due to math challenges? Hmmmm, lets see, 1873 (Springfield) to 2014 = 141? Ok, I guess 141 is over 130. I would agree that its fun to shoot, except with 500 grain bullets and a steel butt plate to absorb the recoil. If you're so inclined, you can even find some spectacular Winchesters in the caliber.

And they even used the caliber for long range match shooting. Consider the 1000 yard shots. At the gravel pit we used to shoot at, there was an old Buick planted half in the sand. We paced it off as best we could and then opened fire. I had a Springfield, but it was the modernistical version (1884) with slightly improved sights. I discovered that by aiming at the base of the tree falling over the embankment above it, I could get a satisfying thunk more often than not. But even that ole punkin' ball traveling that far never managed to "hole" the metal. Guess they made Buicks better back then than today.

Not much experience with marlins. A babe I went to school with (Jeanie Marie Franklin, funny how I remember that) had a sister. The sister drove a Marlin. It broke down a lot. Her sister cried a bunch, too. Usually because the car stopped and stranded her. She was lucky her big sister had a lot of friends who'd rescue her. I've read the new guns named Marlins aren't worth a hoot either. Guess with either caliber you're much better off buying old. I'd think there are a lot more Winchesters, or Brownings using the same design. Might be regional. I sure regret selling the short barrel 1886 I had.

 

[jack the toad]

Not an expert but as mentioned, I can find .45/70 ammo lots more than I can .444 or .450 and in a much more variety of loadings.
I believe both the 444 and 450 are Marlin proprietary cartridges that IMO won't do anything the 45/70 wont do. But as I said, I'm not an expert.

 

[old&slow]

I've had a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 for years. A fun gun to reload for and fun to shoot. With factory 'trap door' loads mild recoil with more than enough power to take out any deer. With reloads out of the Marlin or the Ruger you can warm them up to a point they will get your attention and may not be that much fun to shoot.

 

[NE450No2]

I have shot several deer and a few pigs with a 44 Mag rifle and several deer with a 45/70, a Ruger No1. My brother and brother in law have shot several deer and pigs with Marlin 45/70's.

I prefer the 45/70 over the 444 Marlin for several reasons. Mainly because ammo is easier to find, and the Marlins 1 in 38 twist can be some what finiky as to what bullets it likes.

If you do not reload I can say that the 300gr factory 45/70 gr ammo kills deer and pigs like the Hammer of Thor, and has mild recoil.
Reloads with one of the 300gr bullets at @1800 fps will do the same.
With IMR 3031 start with 52gr, up to 56gr.

I have used reloads with 300gr, 350gr, and 400gr bullets on deer.

My favorite all round 45/70 load is the Hornady 350gr Round Nose [they make a 350gr Flat nosed bullet now as well] over IMR 3031.
Some where from 52 to 54 grains is usually very accurate in a Ruger or the Marlin at a velocity of 1700 to 1800.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
For Ohio , if you reload get a 444 as a 180 to 240gr bullet is plenty for deer.
If you don't get a 45-70 , the 300gr [ aka light bullet] load will do fine
and you will find it easer.

 

[usm1rifle]

Go 45/70, you can find everything from light cowboy ammo to 450 grain hardcast from Buffalo Bore.