44special/44mag lite loads questions

[m657]

re: "Question #1: With Trail Boss, I read somewhere that you can get throat errosion. I don't recall where I read this, but it was on this or another forum. Is this true, and how quickly does this occur?"

I've migrated to using Trail Boss exclusively in Cowboy Action 45LC loads, since the introduction of the powder in my area 4 or 5 years ago.

I've never had erosion in any of the firearms so loaded. I've used one pair of pistols for going on 4 years, and the same Uberti 73 in all that time. Each match is about 120 rounds, often twice a month, with extra for practice...so quick estimate is going on 10,000 rounds/3 guns = 3000 rounds no erosion noted.

YMMV
re: "variation of load with Trail Boss"
I have purposefully tested in .1 grain load between the absolute minimum and maximum listed on the Hodgdon loading site. I have settled on a mid-range load for 200gr cast .451 lead, and at cowboy target distances, have been unable to demonstrate any significant change in POI relating to variances in powder charges thrown by Dillon 650 set up.

I've loaded 38 special thru 45 LC with Trail Boss, and at the ranges I shoot (out to 50 yards), simply am not a good enough marksman to demonstrate any significant loss of accuracy due to the (perhaps) .1g variance in my own loads.

POI/POA does change with enough change in the powder charge, but usually I'm finding .2~.3g is required to make a move of the group.

If I were interested in target bullseye accuracy, I'd have to shoot considerably better than my geezer eyes/geezer wobbly hold can manage to produce in recent decades.

So for my own use, while Trail Boss charge may vary a bit over 100 rounds, that isn't as much as my own variation on any given 100 rounds down range.

 

[Rule3]

The only "problem" with Trail Boss is it is not very economical to use. Even though the container is the same size it is only 9 oz, not 16 oz.

It is such a lightweight powder if you breath to hard it will all float away Smells different too.

Main advantage is you can not overcharge a case and really do not even have to measure or weigh it. Just fill the case to just below where the bullet seats and that's the max charge.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf


http://www.imrpowder.com/data/handgun/trailboss-feb2005.php

 

[Nemo288]

Look into PB. This is an often overlooked, ancient, powder.
It burns very cleanly and like many quick/medium powders was
originally intended for shotguns.

My target load for .44's (both special and magnum brass) is
4.5 grains of PB with filler to hold the powder at the bottom
of the case.

It is very accurate with any 240-250 grain SWC I have tried.
It is a minimal load with MV in the 600-700 fps range. I have
never failed to chuck a pill down range with this one and have
done some one hole groups at 25 feet.

The only residue is that left by whatever filler you use. I like
Grex shotgun buffer but have also used old polishing media
like corncob and walnut. It all works Burned walnut shells
smell a little like the 70's if ya know what I am talking about.

You can use more PB to 5 or more grains if you want more velocity. I
arrived at this load after a program to load down till things didn't
work any more. Luckily I quit before I lodged a bullet in the bore.

I don't see many folks using this powder anymore but it is still
made and I like it better than Unique for target loads. For Elmer
and Skeeter's loads, yeah, Unique is fine. It burns better at
the 1000 fps level.

I use PB in shotgun loads too. Specifically 7/8 oz. 12ga skeet
loads. Almost no clean up.

Reminds me I need to get more before it goes away like the W680
I used in .445 supermag.

 

[Mule88]

Ive been using 9 gns of Universal Clays in Magnum Brass with excellent results. I also use gas checks, no leading and they just seem to shoot more accurate for me than plain base.

 

[hastings]

I have some W231, and some Universal Clays ordered (they don't stock either at my local gun shop ??). I'm going to give them each a try in the 44, and try some Trail Boss in my 45colt Vaquero.

I've only used gas-checks a few times. What are people's opinions on them. If I keep the velocity under 1000 fps with a bullet in with a brinell hardness of around 18, is a gas check necessary? Will the gas check make up for having slightly undersized throats? How does the gas check behave if it transitions from an undersized throat to a slightly wider barrel? I don't think my 44 has throat issues, but I've always wondered how well a gas check performed given all of the variables in dia, pressure, velocity, and rifling.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Gas checks are primarily useful for high speed lead loads.

Secondarily, they are useful for undersized bullets and/or chamber/throats issues.

Under 1500fps you should not need them if bullets are correctly sized and the chamber/throats areas are correct.

I use straight wheel weights, air cooled, and they have a low hardness of somewhere @ 12, but I shoot them in rifles and handguns, but I must size them correctly to avoid leading.

 

[fredj338]

You can certainly use ajut qabout anything from BE to 2400 to get 950fps, just depends on what you want to do. I am quite happy w/ Unique w/ any lead bullet, it just works. If you want better metering Unique, then try Universal, alsthough not as accurate w/ lead bullets, or WSF. All will burn pretty clean @ 950fps.
As to leading, check your cyl throats. If they are small, you are sizing the bullet down as it passes thru to the bbl & letting gas escape, causing early leading. If the bbl slugs 0.429", you want a bullet 0.430" or 0.001" larger than the throats. If the throats are small, habe them polished out to groove dia of the bbl for best results. For 1000fps, you could even shoot pure lead properly sized & lubed.