44WCF & TrailBoss loads?

[JWiley]

Could some some suggest starting and max loads to approximate the historical velocity (1200-1400fps) of the 44WCF black powder loads?

I'll be using 200gr LRNFP bullets out of Uberti replica 1866 Sporting Rifle (24in barrel) and 1873 Carbine (20in).

The IMR site only lists for revolver. (and email to them is bounced as undeliverable.)

 

[OKFC05]

According to my SASS buddy, you can't there from here with Trailboss.
He just shoots the revolver loads in his rifle and settles for the somewhat reduced speed. SASS is happy with the light loads.

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com
Something like Universal or Titegroup will get your speed in rifle loads.

 

[TSQUARED]

The only loads I have found were on the Hodgdon website. I have only used them in a revolver so cannot comment on what they would deliver from a rifle.
Trail Boss is my favorite powder for cast leadbullets in revolver loads.

 

[TwoPoundPull]

I believe Trail Boss was specifically designed NOT to give you those velocities.

 

[JWiley]

Thanks guys. I'm going to call Hogdon/IMR today and see if they can give me the loads or why not. Will report back.

Well, just got off the phone. Talked to a very nice guy named Mike. The limitation, according to him, is pressure. To load TrailBoss to historic rifle velocities would exceed the pressure limits for the cartridge. According to him the only way to do what I want is black powder.

So I'm back to the drawing board.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I shoot Black Powder 44-40 loads out of my Uberti 1873, and Uberti Henry all the time. I dunno where you came up with the 1200-1400 fps figure, but I think it is a bit over ambitious. I load 200 grain bullets over a case full (2.2CC) of Schuetzen FFg Powder. When I chronographed these loads a number of years ago, they were only going around 1100 fps out of a 24" barrel.

Perhaps with old fashioned balloon head cases it would have been possible to stuff a few more grains of powder into a 44-40, but with modern solid head cases it is impossible to stuff in 40 grains of powder without overcompressing the powder. Not all brands of Black Powder weigh the same, but my loading notebook says that my 2.2CC load, which compresses the powder around 1/16", weighs around 34.5 grains when using Goex FFg, around 37.5 grains when I used to use Elephant FFg, and only around 33.5 grains with my current batch of Schuetzen FFg.

In his book Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West, Mike Venturino's data pretty well confirms my velocities. Mike was getting about 1147 fps with Goex FFg, about 1213 fps with Goex FFFg, about 1076 fps with Goex Cartridge, and about 1223 fps with Pyrodex Select, out of the 24" barrel of a Uberti 1866.

SAAMI max pressure for 44-40 is only 13,000 CUP, because there are so many old rifles out there. If you go to Hodgdon's website and look up data for 44-40 rifle, not pistol loads, you will see that the highest velocity they achieve out of a rifle barrel with a 200 grain bullet is 1117 fps with 5.0 grains of Titegroup.

Since you are shooting a '66 and a '73, with relatively weak toggle link actions, that is really as hard as you should be pushing the cartridge. If you were using a '92 or a Marlin it might be a different story.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

When you get to the selection process, above the button that says 'get data' there is a field where you select rifle or pistol loads. Be sure to set it to Rifle and you will get the data.

PS

I just checked my Speer manual. With a 200 grain bullet, 7.8 grains of Unique as a starting load will give you 1240 fps. The MAX load with Unique and a 200 grain bullet is 8.6 grains, 1326 fps. This was with a 24" barrel. For what it's worth, I have loaded 7.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain bullet for years, but never ran it over a chronograph. Again, I caution you with a toggle link rifle, even a brand new one, do not exceed the Maximum load.