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jeffreybehr
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..........
.45 ACP bullet-expansion test results
- Thread starter jeffreybehr
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jeffreybehr
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Now, thanks to Jmc24, we have Federal's premium .45ACP load of 230g. HSTs.
Chronografed in my 4"-barrel pistol at 10' average distance, at about 55dF, five shots averaged 816FPS with an SD of 6 and ES of 19.
They worked rather well in expansion testing, too.
The left-hand bullet was shot into bare jugs. It cracked the rear wall of jug 3; max. width is about 0.86". The second-left was shot thru 4 layers...denim, 2 towels, denim; max. width is c. 0.85". This was stuck in the front wall of jug 4.
The third-left was shot thru denim/4 towels/denim; max. width is, again, 0.86". This cracked the rear wall of jug 4. After such excellent performance, I tried EIGHT layers of toweling between the layers of denim, and the HST finally met its match, showing NO expansion. Each bullet weighed 229 or 230 grains.
This overall performance is better than that of the FTX 185s I've tested and is simply excellent IMO. Those who choose to carry Federal HSTs can be proud of their bullets' performance.
Again, thank you very much Jack...Jmc24...for supplying 10 cartridges for evaluation; you're the FIRST person ever to do so. Others just tell me what they want.
Next will be more testing of the Barnes TAC/XP 160, of which more arrived Friday and more still will arrive this Wednesday, with a K of new nickled Remington +P cases. Those boxes of bullets disappear quickly when each includes only 40.
Oh yea...I have a new full-size M&P 45 arriving this week.
Chronografed in my 4"-barrel pistol at 10' average distance, at about 55dF, five shots averaged 816FPS with an SD of 6 and ES of 19.
They worked rather well in expansion testing, too.
The left-hand bullet was shot into bare jugs. It cracked the rear wall of jug 3; max. width is about 0.86". The second-left was shot thru 4 layers...denim, 2 towels, denim; max. width is c. 0.85". This was stuck in the front wall of jug 4.
The third-left was shot thru denim/4 towels/denim; max. width is, again, 0.86". This cracked the rear wall of jug 4. After such excellent performance, I tried EIGHT layers of toweling between the layers of denim, and the HST finally met its match, showing NO expansion. Each bullet weighed 229 or 230 grains.
This overall performance is better than that of the FTX 185s I've tested and is simply excellent IMO. Those who choose to carry Federal HSTs can be proud of their bullets' performance.
Again, thank you very much Jack...Jmc24...for supplying 10 cartridges for evaluation; you're the FIRST person ever to do so. Others just tell me what they want.
Next will be more testing of the Barnes TAC/XP 160, of which more arrived Friday and more still will arrive this Wednesday, with a K of new nickled Remington +P cases. Those boxes of bullets disappear quickly when each includes only 40.
Oh yea...I have a new full-size M&P 45 arriving this week.
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jeffreybehr
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RAREAmmo's C.O.P (copper-only projectile) 160s...WOW!
I've been staring at those copper-only C.O.P-brand 160g. bullets on MidwayUSA's site for a few weeks and finally bought some. They're lots less expensive than Barnes's TAC/XPs and not much more than other premium-quality bullets...AND...they're available.
Following Hodgdon's recipes (I'm using HS-6) for the TAC/XPs and then carefully increasing for +P loads, I've got these running at around 1050FPS at 10 feet. Probably I'll quit at a couple tenths of a grain higher and should end up around 1075FPS from my 4" compact and 1100FPS from my full-size.
I'll not save the conclusion for later--these are the best bullets I've ever tested for expansion, and I'll be buying more and loading and carrying these for PD.
Expansion results:
ALL expanded bullets weighed from 159.4 thru 159.8 grains, essentially identical to the weight of new bullets.
Bullets 'zero' and 1 were shot into bare waterjugs. Bullet 2 was shot thru a medium-clothing layer of denim/2 terrytowels/denim. Bullet 3 passed thru a thicker layer of denim/4 terrytowels/denim. Since these bullets looked so good and I had enough waterjugs, I then tried one thru my thickest pad yet, denim/8 terrytowels/denim. As you can see, not even 10 layers significantly reduced the expansion of this bullet. All 4 bullets entered waterjug #3, with the last-2 bullets cracking the rear wall of jug 3.
The width of each of the 1st-4 bullets was about 0.8", while the 5th ('4') was about 0.78".
As I wrote earlier, I'm buying more and will be carrying these soon. Now I need to find someone local with ballistic jell to confirm penetration.
I've been staring at those copper-only C.O.P-brand 160g. bullets on MidwayUSA's site for a few weeks and finally bought some. They're lots less expensive than Barnes's TAC/XPs and not much more than other premium-quality bullets...AND...they're available.
Following Hodgdon's recipes (I'm using HS-6) for the TAC/XPs and then carefully increasing for +P loads, I've got these running at around 1050FPS at 10 feet. Probably I'll quit at a couple tenths of a grain higher and should end up around 1075FPS from my 4" compact and 1100FPS from my full-size.
I'll not save the conclusion for later--these are the best bullets I've ever tested for expansion, and I'll be buying more and loading and carrying these for PD.
Expansion results:
ALL expanded bullets weighed from 159.4 thru 159.8 grains, essentially identical to the weight of new bullets.
Bullets 'zero' and 1 were shot into bare waterjugs. Bullet 2 was shot thru a medium-clothing layer of denim/2 terrytowels/denim. Bullet 3 passed thru a thicker layer of denim/4 terrytowels/denim. Since these bullets looked so good and I had enough waterjugs, I then tried one thru my thickest pad yet, denim/8 terrytowels/denim. As you can see, not even 10 layers significantly reduced the expansion of this bullet. All 4 bullets entered waterjug #3, with the last-2 bullets cracking the rear wall of jug 3.
The width of each of the 1st-4 bullets was about 0.8", while the 5th ('4') was about 0.78".
As I wrote earlier, I'm buying more and will be carrying these soon. Now I need to find someone local with ballistic jell to confirm penetration.
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jeffreybehr
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RAREAmmo's C.O.P (copper-only projectile) 185s...WOW again!
I bought and tested some 185g. versions of RAREAmmo's C.O.P. copper-only bullets. Based on my experience with loading the Barnes copper-only 160s and 185s and the COP 160s, I quickly got these to around 1000FPS (at 10') from my 4"-barreled M&P 45C. Here are results of expansion tests.
Bullets 1 and 2 were shot thru bare jugs. #1 entered and tried to exit the left-hand wall of jug 4. #2 entered jug 3 and did not crack its rear wall. Bullet 3 was shot thru a pack of denim/2 layers of terrytowel/denim. Bullet 4 was shot thru denim/4 terrytowels/denim. Bullets 5 was shot thru denim/8 terrytowels/denim. Bullets 3 and 4 entered and cracked the rearwall of jug 3. Bullet 5 almost exited jug 3. These results are quite similar to those of the COP160s. Weights varied from 182.0 - 182.8 grains v. the 182.4 - 182.6g. range of 4 new bullets. All widths were around 0.84 - 0.86".
Since I achieved the arbitrary-but-'magic' velocity of 1000FPS so easily, I'll be loading and carrying these. I'm at-least-temporarily finished testing .45-caliber bullets.
FWIW, these 185s are significantly longer then the COP160s--c. 0.713" v. c. 0.680" for the 160s and c. 0.668" for the Barnes 160s, and, in my unqualified opinion, the is the reason these bullets can't be driven as fast (at the same pressure) as lead-core bullets--more friction in the barrel.
I'm still going to look for someone local who has ballistic jell to test penetration.
BTW I have a limited number of Barnes TAC/XP 160s and COP160s available for testing. E-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net if you're interested.
I bought and tested some 185g. versions of RAREAmmo's C.O.P. copper-only bullets. Based on my experience with loading the Barnes copper-only 160s and 185s and the COP 160s, I quickly got these to around 1000FPS (at 10') from my 4"-barreled M&P 45C. Here are results of expansion tests.
Bullets 1 and 2 were shot thru bare jugs. #1 entered and tried to exit the left-hand wall of jug 4. #2 entered jug 3 and did not crack its rear wall. Bullet 3 was shot thru a pack of denim/2 layers of terrytowel/denim. Bullet 4 was shot thru denim/4 terrytowels/denim. Bullets 5 was shot thru denim/8 terrytowels/denim. Bullets 3 and 4 entered and cracked the rearwall of jug 3. Bullet 5 almost exited jug 3. These results are quite similar to those of the COP160s. Weights varied from 182.0 - 182.8 grains v. the 182.4 - 182.6g. range of 4 new bullets. All widths were around 0.84 - 0.86".
Since I achieved the arbitrary-but-'magic' velocity of 1000FPS so easily, I'll be loading and carrying these. I'm at-least-temporarily finished testing .45-caliber bullets.
FWIW, these 185s are significantly longer then the COP160s--c. 0.713" v. c. 0.680" for the 160s and c. 0.668" for the Barnes 160s, and, in my unqualified opinion, the is the reason these bullets can't be driven as fast (at the same pressure) as lead-core bullets--more friction in the barrel.
I'm still going to look for someone local who has ballistic jell to test penetration.
BTW I have a limited number of Barnes TAC/XP 160s and COP160s available for testing. E-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net if you're interested.
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jeffreybehr
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And now, Hornady XTP185s
I've sort-of-loved XTPs for years, using them in in my various .40s, .45GAPs, 357SIGS, and now the M&P 45. After getting to know my M&P 45C and 45, I started this load at 9.4g. of HS-6, only 0.1g. under Hodgdon's normal-load maximum charge of 9.5g., and got to 0.2g. under their +P load's max of 10.0g. Velocities were about 100FPS lower than I expected, achieving only 934FPS @ 10' from my 4.6" barrel. I had hoped for something LOTS closer to Hodgdon's quoted 1162FPS for their maximum +P charge of 10.0g.
Expanded bullets were also a bit disappointing.
Bullet 1 was shot into a bare jug #1. It entered jug FIVE and did not crack its rear wall. Bullet #2 escaped captivity, out the left shoulder of an early jug. Bullet 3 was shot thru denim/2 terrytowels/denim, entered jug 5 and did not crack its rear wall. Bullet 4 also escaped captivity, shot thru denim/4 terrytowels/denim, after penetrating SEVEN jugs and disappearing. I fotografed the 2 atop the front surface of bullet 4's jug 7. Note the perfectly formed hole with 6 'teeth', the same number of 'petals' of the bullet, which indicates to me that the bullet was barely expanded. This performance is marginal IMO, and maybe Hornady's, too, since they subsequently developed the FTX bullet, which does indeed perform more consistently when shot thru things.
The XTP might be a good choice for those who prefer their PD bullets more on the penetrate end of the expand/penetrate continuum.
FWIW, here's a pair from years ago, shot into bare waterjugs from one of my .45GAPs.
Altho I'm plenty happy with the performance of the COP185s, I'd love to see Winchester start selling 185g. PDX1s or Remington their Golden Saber Bondeds in 185g.
I've sort-of-loved XTPs for years, using them in in my various .40s, .45GAPs, 357SIGS, and now the M&P 45. After getting to know my M&P 45C and 45, I started this load at 9.4g. of HS-6, only 0.1g. under Hodgdon's normal-load maximum charge of 9.5g., and got to 0.2g. under their +P load's max of 10.0g. Velocities were about 100FPS lower than I expected, achieving only 934FPS @ 10' from my 4.6" barrel. I had hoped for something LOTS closer to Hodgdon's quoted 1162FPS for their maximum +P charge of 10.0g.
Expanded bullets were also a bit disappointing.
Bullet 1 was shot into a bare jug #1. It entered jug FIVE and did not crack its rear wall. Bullet #2 escaped captivity, out the left shoulder of an early jug. Bullet 3 was shot thru denim/2 terrytowels/denim, entered jug 5 and did not crack its rear wall. Bullet 4 also escaped captivity, shot thru denim/4 terrytowels/denim, after penetrating SEVEN jugs and disappearing. I fotografed the 2 atop the front surface of bullet 4's jug 7. Note the perfectly formed hole with 6 'teeth', the same number of 'petals' of the bullet, which indicates to me that the bullet was barely expanded. This performance is marginal IMO, and maybe Hornady's, too, since they subsequently developed the FTX bullet, which does indeed perform more consistently when shot thru things.
The XTP might be a good choice for those who prefer their PD bullets more on the penetrate end of the expand/penetrate continuum.
FWIW, here's a pair from years ago, shot into bare waterjugs from one of my .45GAPs.
Altho I'm plenty happy with the performance of the COP185s, I'd love to see Winchester start selling 185g. PDX1s or Remington their Golden Saber Bondeds in 185g.
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Sharks06lly
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Has anyone tried the corbon 230gr jhp rounds? thats what i have in my 45 right now after listening to several people at my local gun store
Captain Skippy
Member
^^^^^^^
This.
This stuff is simply awesome. I've shot and recovered some 9 and 45ACP. Unbelievable expansion.
First of all, Merry Christmas, and thanks for all the testing!
I feel like the XTP's worked as designed. They expanded to their cannelure, and then penetrated deeply. I've always thought of the XTP as a great hunting bullet, but a marginal one for self defense.
FWIW, I drink Gold Dot & HST koolaid
I feel like the XTP's worked as designed. They expanded to their cannelure, and then penetrated deeply. I've always thought of the XTP as a great hunting bullet, but a marginal one for self defense.
FWIW, I drink Gold Dot & HST koolaid
From a 5" 1911, the Corbon 230 gr JHP +P chronographed 1,017 fps. In a water test using one gallon water jugs, the lead core stopped in the 4th jug leaving lead & jacket fragments in its wake.
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jeffreybehr
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First of all, Merry Christmas TYVM; you and yours too.
and thanks for all the testing! YW.
I feel like the XTP's worked as designed. They expanded to their cannelure, and then penetrated deeply. I've always thought of the XTP as a great hunting bullet, but a marginal one for self defense. Probably you're right. I'm actually fantasizing about alternating loads with the COP185s and the XTP185s in each of my carrygun magz.
FWIW, I drink Gold Dot & HST koolaid
I loaded a couple more slightly higher charges under the XTPs to see if I can get them closer to 1000FPS. If so, I'll then determine if the 2 different loads groups well enough to alternate them in the magz.
Sharks06lly
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awesome thanks for the info
Sharks06lly
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- Joined
- Nov 9, 2013
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- 56
- Reaction score
- 7
awesome thanks for the info
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jeffreybehr
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I thought I was finished, but...Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock 220
MidwayUSA had these on sale so I bought some.
Claimed muzzle velocity from 5" barrel 990FPS; mine at ten feet from 4.6" barrel 956FPS...quite close and LOTS closer than some factory loads.
EXCELLENT performance IMO.
#1 was shot thru a bare 1st jug; it exited jug #4. #2 was shot thru a 1st jug with 2 layers of terrytowel with denim front and back; it cracked the rear wall of jug #5. #3 was shot thru a 1st jug with 8 layers of terrytowels plus denim front and back; it, too, cracked the rear wall of jug #5.
These results are consistent with those of the Hornady XTP in that Hornady apparently designs these more for penetration than expansion. I believe we have a factory-load best bullet, folks. For instance, see post #42 for results with the Federal HST, which expanded not at all thru 8 terrytowels.
Functioning was perfect in my M&P 45 (FS).
MidwayUSA had these on sale so I bought some.
Claimed muzzle velocity from 5" barrel 990FPS; mine at ten feet from 4.6" barrel 956FPS...quite close and LOTS closer than some factory loads.
EXCELLENT performance IMO.
#1 was shot thru a bare 1st jug; it exited jug #4. #2 was shot thru a 1st jug with 2 layers of terrytowel with denim front and back; it cracked the rear wall of jug #5. #3 was shot thru a 1st jug with 8 layers of terrytowels plus denim front and back; it, too, cracked the rear wall of jug #5.
These results are consistent with those of the Hornady XTP in that Hornady apparently designs these more for penetration than expansion. I believe we have a factory-load best bullet, folks. For instance, see post #42 for results with the Federal HST, which expanded not at all thru 8 terrytowels.
Functioning was perfect in my M&P 45 (FS).
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jeffreybehr
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FWIW, SGAmmo has these Hornady Critical Duty 50box cartridges for $34/box. My five cost $183.75 delivered or $0.735 per cartridge.
50 round box - 45 Auto 220 grain +P Hornady Critical Duty Ammo 90925 | SGAmmo.com
50 round box - 45 Auto 220 grain +P Hornady Critical Duty Ammo 90925 | SGAmmo.com
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