.45 acp load direction part 2

[Yankeetom]

Thanks all for all the info on my original post and I see now that my loads must be different for the 2 pistols I’m loading in .45 acp!
The 1911’s are happy with with what I’m doing now, but where I need a hand is for my model 25-2. Tell me if this is how I get there.I’ve pin gauged the cylinder and my biggest pin gauge is .4545 and that is still a tic loose. I know all 6 chambers need to be sized, I’ve yet to slug my barrel to see its size. My question at this point is how much larger can the lead bullet be over the barrel i.d and be safe to shoot? I don’t cast bullets would need to rely on commercial manufactures like Montana bullet works for bullets. I’m just shooting at 15-25 yards at 8” bullseye targets.
Thanks again for your support…Tom

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I never sweated the small stuff and I shot PPC.

If you are getting decent groups, the revolver and your reloads are good to go. Don’t overthink it.

 

[Alk8944]

Throw those damned pin gauges away, they are absolutely unnecessary! If you want to know the groove diameter compared to the throats then slug the barrel and then see how they fit the cylinder throats. If they fall through there is nothing you can do to fix it. if they pass with slight resistance that is perfect, and if they cannot be pushed through then the throats should be reamed as needed.

To know the diameter of the throats simply slug then individually and measure the throat slugs with a micrometer. Hopefully you will be able to find commercial bullets .001-.002" larger than the throats. There is no hazard with cast bullets even .002-.003" over groove or throat diameter as long as the ammunition freely chambers in the gun. Jacket bullets are a different matter.

Where in this is anything helped with pin gauges??????? A properly done lead slug is more accurate! And free too. Just use one or more of your cast bullets to do the slugging.

I am an old-school cast bullet shooter that has been doing this for nearly 65 years, this is the way it was always done in the past before some idiot thought pin gauges were a good idea and started blabbing about them on the internet!!!!

If you are lucky you won't have a barrel like a 624 Mountain Gun I bought in the early days of EDM/ECM, or whatever rifling. The groove diameter was .435". A .435 bullet in a .44 case won't even go into the charge holes! I messed with it for far too long before dumping it! Shot fine with jacketed bullets, but I am a caster! I replaced the gun with a 1989 .44 Mountain Revolver that has broached rifling that has normal dimensions and everything is fine now.

 

[venomballistics]

ALK provides a good practical approach to bullet fit.
Cast lead is fairly forgiving of oversized projectiles.
Some autorim loaders even go so far as to load long Colt revolver bullets instead of ACP targeted designs. (These tend to be larger diameter than those of autos)

 

[rockquarry]

Throw those damned pin gauges away, they are absolutely unnecessary! If you want to know the groove diameter compared to the throats then slug the barrel and then see how they fit the cylinder throats. If they fall through there is nothing you can do to fix it. if they pass with slight resistance that is perfect, and if they cannot be pushed through then the throats should be reamed as needed.

To know the diameter of the throats simply slug then individually and measure the throat slugs with a micrometer. Hopefully you will be able to find commercial bullets .001-.002" larger than the throats. There is no hazard with cast bullets even .002-.003" over groove or throat diameter as long as the ammunition freely chambers in the gun. Jacket bullets are a different matter.

Where in this is anything helped with pin gauges??????? A properly done lead slug is more accurate! And free too. Just use one or more of your cast bullets to do the slugging.

I am an old-school cast bullet shooter that has been doing this for nearly 65 years, this is the way it was always done in the past before some idiot thought pin gauges were a good idea and started blabbing about them on the internet!!!!

If you are lucky you won't have a barrel like a 624 Mountain Gun I bought in the early days of EDM/ECM, or whatever rifling. The groove diameter was .435". A .435 bullet in a .44 case won't even go into the charge holes! I messed with it for far too long before dumping it! Shot fine with jacketed bullets, but I am a caster! I replaced the gun with a 1989 .44 Mountain Revolver that has broached rifling that has normal dimensions and everything is fine now.

You're right, but I think the pin gauge fad is firmly entrenched with many of today's shooters. Most of us that have been casting a while also have cast bullet sizing dies in different diameters. Pin gauges serve no real purpose.

 

[Yankeetom]

Alk if the cast bullets I have now which measures.452 slide through the chambers in the cylinder with ease then what do you do to size the chamber? I don’t cast nor have multiple sized lead slugs.

 

[scattershot]

I had a Model 25 in 45 Colt.They were known for over large chamber mouths. Mine went .456. I found that jacketed bullets shot well, so that’s what I used in that gun.

You might ry some jacketed bullets, and see how it goes..

 

[rockquarry]

I had a Model 25 in 45 Colt.They were known for over large chamber mouths. Mine went .456. I found that jacketed bullets shot well, so that’s what I used in that gun.

You might ry some jacketed bullets, and see how it goes..

I used .456" cast bullets in mine.

 

[Forrest r]

A lot of shooters went thru the same thing with the 1917 revolvers from the government surplus.

Hollow based bullets do extremely well in them. Some of the different hb bullets I cast in the past.

The only mold I kept is the bottom left, it's a cramer 5f (cramers version of the h&g #68/swc).

The hb pined cramer 5f mold was specifically made/designed for the oversized chambers of the 1917/45acp revolvers.

 

[AlHunt]

Alk if the cast bullets I have now which measures.452 slide through the chambers in the cylinder with ease then what do you do to size the chamber? I don’t cast nor have multiple sized lead slugs.

I can look through my stash of lead projectiles today and see if I have a half dozen of something bigger than whatever your pin gauge was reading. If I don't, somebody on here surely does.

 

[StrawHat]

The Model 25-2 uses the same rifling as specified for the Model 1917 and was designed for jacketed bullets. In my revolvers I have found that cast bullets with a long bearing surface tend to shoot better. I use a 240 grain full wadcutter and also a 240 grain SWC. Both are loaded over a hardball dose of powder. Both loads shoot close enough to point of aim that messing with the sights is not necessary.

Good luck.

Kevin

 

[gwpercle]

Alk if the cast bullets I have now which measures.452 slide through the chambers in the cylinder with ease then what do you do to size the chamber? I don’t cast nor have multiple sized lead slugs.

You are overthinking it .
Take the .452" cast bullets you have , load up a few for testing and see how they group ...
Many powders will work ... What Cha' Got ?

Less Thinking and more CHOOTEN' will tell the tale .
Gary

 

[AlHunt]

Well, apparently I sized everything I have cast. And sold the mold a while back.

Somebody on here must have a mold that's dropping a .460 slug. Anything would do, it doesn't have to be a suitable bullet for that gun.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

LOOK AT BEAR CREEK SUPPLY BULLETS . THE HAVE SEVERAL 45LC BULLETS SIZED AT 454. THEY EVEN HAVE A HB .455 WEBLEY BULLET.

 

[Yankeetom]

Thanks all for the info. One last question, if these 2 pistols the model 1917 and model 25’s were to shoot the jacketed .451sized 230 gr acp why would S&W machine the chambers so big?

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

Thanks all for the info. One last question, if these 2 pistols the model 1917 and model 25’s were to shoot the jacketed .451sized 230 gr acp why would S&W machine the chambers so big?

They probably got tired of having people complain that their hand loads wouldn't fit in the cylinders???

 

[ReloadforFun]

Forrest - that 175gr looks to have a nose much shorter than found on an H&G 68 style.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

In my 25-5 it really liked the Speer 250 grain swaged LSWC at about 900 fps.

 

[rockquarry]

Well, apparently I sized everything I have cast. And sold the mold a while back.

Somebody on here must have a mold that's dropping a .460 slug. Anything would do, it doesn't have to be a suitable bullet for that gun.

I have a Lyman 4-cavity #454424 mould from the '60s, I think. This is probably the most popular .45 Colt bullet. As-cast diameter of bullets from this mould is about .456" or .457". I run bullets through a .45-70 bullet sizing die of .461" so there is only lubing, no sizing.

I 've never proven it to myself, but I'm pretty sure you could use a .454" bullet in the oversized throats and get good accuracy. Bullets would have to obturate, so alloy and charge would be critical. While it should work well, the load development would be more than most handloaders would care to do.

I haven't loaded .45 Colt in quite a while but did so for forty or so years. I much prefer the .44 Special nowadays.

 

[BC38]

I must be missing something here.
All the specs I can find show both the 45ACP and the 45 Colt as having a .452 diameter?
But you guys are talking about the 45 Colt bullets having diameters as big as .461 - which seems awfully big - too big to be sized down to the .452 spec, even if you wanted to.
I'm familiar with using lead a couple of thousandths oversized, but 9 thousandths seems like a lot to me, even if the throats are .455 or .456. Starting with a .461 bullet that's still 5 or 6 thousandths oversized, and sizing them down even that much seems like it would be pretty hard to push them through a .455 or .456 sizing die. Wouldn't it?