45 Colt, what's a "standard" load??

[VAdoublegunner]

VA, you've got a PM.

Thanks for the note, G4F! I have revised my OP accordingly. It's a great forum where folks who are serious handloaders can keep watch among themselves!

 

[Skip Sackett]

I'm gonna step out on a limb here,

I'd be interested to know how well the 45-270-SAA shoots with the Unique load, smith crazy, and what sort of velocities you are getting. As I mentioned, after having bad luck with it in most applications for 45 Colt, I never got around to trying it with that powder. It may be worth a relook.

VA,
Your problem may be a size issue. With the bullets I have posted pictures of for the 45Colt, sized to .452" and on the softer side, I haven't experienced any leading no matter what powder I have used. Granted, I haven't used Universal either but......

I have limited data recorded on the light side for the 45Colt. Since my "other 45Colt" is a Ruger, I have been working on those "Ruger Only" and Linebaugh loads!

That being said, I do have some data:
With the round pins the bullet weighs approx. 265gr
9.0gr of Unique gave me 965fps from the Ruger and 1225fps from the Puma Rifle.

The 240gr H&G #502 bullet gives a bit less from the M25 -7 with the same load of Unique, 900fps and my notes say: "Very accurate".

I am very fortunate in that all, even my semi autos are consistent in size and take .452" bullets very, very well. My M625JM is a tack driver with the H&G bullet loaded to over 1100fps. Awhile back, I posted a thread about how I love casting. Featured in that thread, was my Mick. If you do a search for that thread, you will see my cleaning process in pictures. No trick photography either. What you see is what you get or got, rather!

No leading, a few flakes at the forcing cone, period.

The other thing may be the lube. A good quality lube will greatly reduce the possibility of leading.

Try sizing your throats. If they allow a .452" bullet to easily drop through, you may be a candidate for .454"!

Fit is the most important thing in shooting cast bullets well, lube is next and then alloy.

Hope this helps. As soon as the weather breaks, I will get more testing done. Let you know!

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Thank, smith crazy. The size issue seems OK since both the Speer swaged bullets and the Mt Baldy 45-270-SAA work great.

I think the main problem was the alloy being used in my bullets. They are from a local caster and are very hard in addition to being bevel based. I may not have been driving them hard enough with Unique. I shoot their 44Mag bullets with great success at around 1100-1150 fps using WSF with no leading and very pleasing accuracy (my 5.5" Vaquero usually can keep them mostly within the 9 ring of a B-8 target at 50 yards even with *me* shooting). Just the 255gr 45 Colt bullets were not working and causing bad leading at standard charge weights. Must not have hit that magic obturation/pressure relation! And since I was shooting them for cowboy action in Blackhawks at the time, I didn't want to exceed the 1000fps range velocity limit. So I went to another powder that fixed the problem.

I have a couple of powders I like using with 45-270-SAA bullets, 2400, Power Pistol, HS6 and 4227 among them. Velocities for such a heavyweight are impressive as is accuracy. If Unique may give me some accuracy or velocity improvement, it may be worth another look!

 

[duckloads]

I load two loads for my 625 MG. one is a 200 gr RNFP over 6.5 gr trail boss powder. the other is 250 gr RNFP over 8 gr unique. At 25 feet, they print close enough together that it doesn't matter.

 

[Mike_1974]

The one thing that seems to left out of these discussions is over all length as most of these bullets have a crimp groove. Do most reloaders crimp in the groove or load to the recommended OAL?

 

[Skip Sackett]

Crimp groove. The bullet is designed to be a suitable OAL when loaded like that.

Minimal amount in case and maximum amount out. The old Elmer Keith type of thing going on there!

Now if we were talking auto rounds, the OAL would be stated in each recipe I post!

Excellent question too!

 

[Rule3]

That's why in my OP, I was thinking the softer (12BHN) bullets as I usually load at target or lower values. The softer lead obturate better and I have less or no leading problems. The harder magnum bullets loaded at wimp velocities result in more cleaning issues.

 

[Skip Sackett]

A good question deserves a good answer!

Wanted to add a picture to answer Mike's question:

 

[USSR]

I have a couple of powders I like using with 45-270-SAA bullets, 2400, Power Pistol, HS6 and 4227 among them. Velocities for such a heavyweight are impressive as is accuracy.

VAdoublegunner,

I would be interested in knowing your 2400 and 4227 load data.

Don

 

[VAdoublegunner]

USSR,

For the RCBS-45-270-SAA, which generally weighs around 282gr, I use either (as stated above) 18.0gr of 2400, or 20.0gr of 4227. They are made up in Starline brass using WLP or Fed 100 primers. I prefer WLP. These loads are around the 20Kpsi range (ref: Handloader #246 - Pearce -'From the Hip' column), and are not generally considered suitable for black powder frame Colt SAAs or Colt clones, which are limited to 14Kpsi. Velocity is just over 1100fps in my 7.5" Vaquero with the 2400 load, and around 990 in the same gun with 4227. Velocities are reduced ~ 50fps in my 4" S&W Model 25-13.

Another excellent load for this bullet is 9.5gr of Power Pistol, also in the 20Kpsi range, also in Starline brass. Velocity is just under 1000 fps in a 5.5" Bisley Blackhawk. I have not chrono'd it in other guns. Again not suitable for Colt SAAs or clones with black powder sized frames/cylinders.

 

[USSR]

Thanks. I've got a 6" 25-5. I have a .45-270 HP clone mould on the way to me. With the HP pins in, weight is supposed to be about 265gr, same as my RCBS .45-255 mould casts.

Don

 

[Trippy]

i only kill paper with my 1911 and i found fmj 230 grain at walmart for $15 a box winchester white box

 

[NWShooter]

Getting back to the OP and a "standard" load... Since I like to use "original" in my original guns, I have been burning 8.2gr of Unique behind a Remington 250gr LRN factory bullet. This is right out of one of the Speer manuals, and when I shot it right next to a Remington factory round I couldn't feel any difference.
The target shows that even out of a 110 year old Colt SAA with a 4-3/4" bbl, and just resting my elbows across the hood of my truck, it certainly is a great load.

Just imagine what it will do from a Smith M-25 with all that fancy, modern stuff (like real sights!).

Chris

 

[Rule3]

Well, it seems that Unique is the Powder de jour along with the 250 gr bullet.

Thanks

 

[special44]

.45 Colt, what's a "standard" load

The standard cast bullet load for the .45 Colt has long been either Lyman #454190
or #454424, which is a Keith bullet, over 8.0 gr. Unique powder ignited by a standard
large pistol primer. If you plan on using cast bullets, it is best to measure your cylinder throats, to determine the required bullet diameter.

 

[Ron H.]

I finally found a SW M 25 Mt Gun 45 Colt. It needs to wait it's 30 days in the hole (Pawn shop trade in law) So I need to gear up and get brass, bullets, dies.

I only kill paper so need to know what cast bullets to get.
With a range of 180gr to 300gr it's hard to tell.

I do have some 200gr RN with a cannelure that I use in 45 Auto(they feed in the SA XD's)

So is there a "traditional" weight bullet used in these guns?
I was thinking the soft (BHN 12) 250 gr RNFP, Cowboy action #1 bullet listed here:

Missouri Bullet Company

But any good loads/weight you guys have appreciated.

Thanks

Sir, for years the standard factory load was a swaged lead 250- or 255-grain pointed roundnose bullet loaded to a nominal 870 fps. That performance can be more or less duplicated with a cast 250 over 8.0 to 8.5 grains of Unique. That's been my "standard" .45 Colt load for some years.

With a cast 200-grain bullet, 8.0 grains of Unique makes a nice plinking load. I used to shoot a lot of these. One really nice thing about 200-grain bullets is that they usually print closer to the sights of Smith revolvers than 250s do.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

... a Remington 250gr LRN factory bullet ...

Just imagine what it will do from a Smith M-25 with all that fancy, modern stuff (like real sights!).

Chris

I like those Rem 250gr LRN swaged bullets, even with the gritty black lube they have. They are nominally .455" diameter and are one bullet that shoots really well in my large throated 25-5 (around .456") without a lot of effort to get them to shoot well. Or leading. They are an authentic old school item.

 

[saltydog452]

Smith crazy...Knock Knock

I want some of the lead HPs sized .454. The .454 (or slightly larger) is kinda important.

The larger diameter might keep the pro-ject-tiles in the same county.

Can we do this?

If so, how?

Thanks,

salty

 

[GCF]

Fit is the most important thing in shooting cast bullets well, lube is next and then alloy.

I usually prefer a light pressure push through, as with a .452" bullet, & .4525" throats. This is the case w/ my 625-6MG / .45 Colt. It shoots 265 grain Keith bullets well, over 7.8 - 8.2 grains of VV N-330, 8.6 - 8.8 grains of VV N-340, or 9.5 grains of VV N-350. LBT Blue lube, & no leading.

Out of curiousity, what are your thoughts on a "snug" cylinder throat / bullet fit? I have a newer 625-8 (.45acp) w/ tighter (.452") throats. No finger pressure push through possible - w/ a .452" bullet. It's quite accurate w/ .452" 200LSWC's & 230LTC (both bevel base), but I do notice a little lead buildup - & am wondering if a traditional flat based, cast revolver bullet wouldn't be a better match... Any thoughts?

 

[Beans]

The gun used was a Colt 7 1/2 ,SAA, 2nd Gen

Bullet weight = 267
Sized = 454
Cast from ww
Mold=Lyman Ideal
Powder=Unique 6.5
Case= Rem
Primer=CCI300
COL= 1.655
Volecity= 705
Accuracy= 1 x 3/4 inches at 15 yards