.45 Metal Piercing ammo

[Hoosier45]

I have come into possession of a full box (50) of Western Super-X 45 metal piercing 230gr. Someone wrote in pencil on the box "Sept. 1953", probably manufacturing date. Does anybody know the value or more information about these rounds.

 

[lebomm]

This and similar .38 Spl & .357 Mag loads were developed during the 1930s for military and police use in shooting at vehicles. They vary by manufacturer and may or may not have a steel core, like military AP. If you decide to shoot them, just be sure you have a solid, preferably dirt, backstop.

Larry

 

[SWP357]

Those are cool, could you try one on your car door and post us all some pics?
Sorry had to, those must be of some value to a collector, hope you get more help than I've been.

 

[Dragon88]

There are Federal restrictions on armor-piercing handgun rounds, or "cop killer" bullets. I do not know where the lines are drawn, so consult your local, state and Federal laws before doing anything with these.

 

[smith17]

dragon:
They are not armor piercing or cop killer bullets.
Ed

 

[scooter123]

dragon:
They are not armor piercing or cop killer bullets.
Ed

I'll second that. In the case of the 45 ACP it's a HUGE second and I suspect that "metal piercing" ability is more marketing hype than actual fact. It might punch through the thin skin on the door of a mid 50's VW Beetle but I suspect it would have problems with the door on something like a mid 50's F100 pickup.

 

[30-30remchester]

I am a collector of antique ammunition and have been for nearly 50 years, so I do have some knowledge. These are desireable and pricey rounds of ammo. Not because of their metal piercing abilities, which is limited, but because they are uncommon. A full box is a bonus. PLEASE DONT SHOOT THESE. Sell them to a collector. Next they are not cop killers or armour piercing. They are simply metal piecing, designed for law enforcement, so the could easier penatrate car doors. While I have never sectioned one of these bullets from a 45 ACP, I have sectioned the 357 metal piercing ammo loaded by Winchester. It is simply a soft lead core, very soft, that is encased in a pointed copper jacket. In fact even the nose section of the bullet is very thin. I doubt they would penatrate much more metal than standard FMJ's.

 

[tops]

I haven't had any dealings with .45 metal piercing but I have shot several .357 metal piercing in different thicknesses and layers of metal and they won't penetrate any more than a hard cast SWC. They don't have a steel core like black tip AP. Larry

 

[dnater]

Let me second what 30-30 remchester said. These are very collectible. Don't just shoot them.
I've been looking for these or the Remington 170 grain version at gunshows for 30 plus years without any luck.

 

[Hoosier45]

Thank you everyone for your information, comments and answers. I searched around the internet and it appears Western, Peters, and Remington manufactured these metal piercing rounds in .38, .357, and .45 (as stated above)...and that the .45 is the most rare caliber and Western is the hardest to find. They were made in brass and nickel (I'm guessing the nickel is more rare and more valuable). I guess I got lucky. If I do sell this ammo what would be a fair price for the set and is anybody interested. I also have a few additional rounds of the same .45 AP ammo but in nickel without its box. What would be a price per round ($4)???

 

[NE450No2]

I am a collector of antique ammunition and have been for nearly 50 years, so I do have some knowledge. These are desireable and pricey rounds of ammo. Not because of their metal piercing abilities, which is limited, but because they are uncommon. A full box is a bonus. PLEASE DONT SHOOT THESE. Sell them to a collector. Next they are not cop killers or armour piercing. They are simply metal piecing, designed for law enforcement, so the could easier penatrate car doors. While I have never sectioned one of these bullets from a 45 ACP, I have sectioned the 357 metal piercing ammo loaded by Winchester. It is simply a soft lead core, very soft, that is encased in a pointed copper jacket. In fact even the nose section of the bullet is very thin. I doubt they would penatrate much more metal than standard FMJ's.

30/30 is correct. They do penetrate a little better through windshields and car bodies because of their pointed bullets. But they are not illegal.

However newer generation like the French Arcane, and the KTW are illegal in handgun ammo, because they are monometal bullets designed NOT to expand. SO they fit the Federal Legal defination of handgun "AP".

 

[skeete]

I had several boxes of this same ammo in 357. They basically are lead core with a heavier jacket. My 357 rounds would not penetrate an auto door frame ( on a 4 door car-between the doors), they are as said before mainly hype but will penetrate doors which are not as thick as the pillars between doors and this is waht they were designed for.
IMO they do not fall into the description of real AP rounds or "cop killer" bullets.

 

[mkk41]

I've got a few dozen of the .45 rounds and always wanted to try them on different thickness sheet metal.

Car body sheet metal was quite a bit thicker back in the old days. Prohibition-era gangsters were also known to add layers of sheet steel to their car doors , install bullet proof glass , and even wear bullet proof vests. And most cops carried .38 Specials with 158gr RNL bullets. Even the earliest .357 mag ammo was loaded with lead.

 

[steveno]

Western Ammunition put out ammo catalogs.they talk about the angles and how much penetration that could be expected with the 38 , 357 & 45 acp metal piercing ammo. the 45 acp was a 230 grain bullet at 945 fps.
I have seen these catalogs at gunshow pretty cheap as in around $5. they are a pretty good read. I have a 1952 , 1954 and one I tink that is a lot earlier than that but i don't see the date on it.

 

[Fred Mertz]

Collectors out there?

Saw this older post and wanted to see if any of you knew collectors looking for the Western Super-X 45 Auto Metal Piercing cartridges. I hav a box with 22 cartridges and woudl be interested in selling them to a collector.

 

[OldK22]

The Remington Ammunition is actually has 173 Grain Bullets. They were called the "HI-WAY MASTER"

 

[-db-]

However newer generation like the French Arcane, and the KTW are illegal in handgun ammo, because they are monometal bullets designed NOT to expand. SO they fit the Federal Legal defination of handgun "AP".

While some states ban or restrict KTW ammo, there is no Federal law prohibiting it. It is sold openly at GunBroker, among other venues.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

Nice find!

As others have said, your MP ammo is highly collectable, especially a full and complete box.

Technically your ammo is not "armor piercing" but some states may consider it as such (check your local laws). It has a lead core and the jacket is thicker at the meplat (tip) of the bullet.

Check this link for a photo of a sectioned bullet of your round and you can see the noticable difference in the thickness of the jacket:

International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - 38 Special Western Super X Metal Piercing