455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model - Shooting Results - I pass (14 Pictures)

[Swissman]

Dear members

I like to present you a old gun. It's not mine (at this time) but i like to read your statements.

Someone sent me this gun for have a look. If i like it, he wants to sell to me it for ca. US$ 700.--

I contacted cxm, some days before i ordered the gun for having a look at it. He sent me deep information and comments, based on two blurry and small e-mail-pics, that i got from the owner. Many thanks again cxm!!

I did a serious cleaning this evening and take some pics. The lockwork is good and clean, without rust. The lockup got play but it's better than a Rossi from the eighties.

The cylinder is original and not altered to .45 Colt. All matching #.

What makes me real sorrows is the barrelinside.

Please take your time to watch the pics. If something is not clear, please ask. With this pictures, it should be possible to make some more comments and opinions.

<span class="ev_code_RED">I like to shoot it from time to time. A buddy owns a RCBS die-set and the 45 Colt-cases are a great source to make the Eley-beans.</span>


What would you do???

Thanks for helping.

Swissman

 

[Swissman]

Dear members

I like to present you a old gun. It's not mine (at this time) but i like to read your statements.

Someone sent me this gun for have a look. If i like it, he wants to sell to me it for ca. US$ 700.--

I contacted cxm, some days before i ordered the gun for having a look at it. He sent me deep information and comments, based on two blurry and small e-mail-pics, that i got from the owner. Many thanks again cxm!!

I did a serious cleaning this evening and take some pics. The lockwork is good and clean, without rust. The lockup got play but it's better than a Rossi from the eighties.

The cylinder is original and not altered to .45 Colt. All matching #.

What makes me real sorrows is the barrelinside.

Please take your time to watch the pics. If something is not clear, please ask. With this pictures, it should be possible to make some more comments and opinions.

<span class="ev_code_RED">I like to shoot it from time to time. A buddy owns a RCBS die-set and the 45 Colt-cases are a great source to make the Eley-beans.</span>


What would you do???

Thanks for helping.

Swissman

 

[mikepriwer]

The gun is very nice looking. Everything looks the way it is suppossed
to look. The only issue is the condition of the bore, as you noted.
There is a bore-cleaning compound - its a white pasty stuff that comes
in a tube. You put it on a cloth patch, and run it up and down the bore.
The first few times, it comes out very black. After a while, when the
bore is cleaned up, its more white-to-gray.

If you get the bore clean, you might be able to evaluate the severity
of the pitting. Generally, that is not a serious problem. You might
also want to fire the gun, to see if the condition of the bore is
causing any accuracy problems.

As is, I think its a good deal for US 700.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[jbshooter2004]

Just a couple of observations about the 2nd Model Hand Ejector you have there. I believe the recess on the inside of the top strap is a crud recess as the .455 Mark I which was a black powder cartridge. My .455 triplelock and a friend's .455 Colt both have them. I believe the spring loaded plunger is a tensioner to keep the cylinder and crane from falling out if the sideplate screw is gone or removed. My triplelock has one, my other Smith's don't. Military firearms are tools that are often modified or streamlined once production starts so you often many variations.
As as value, I have no idea. There are many more knowledgable folks here that will help you out. Good luck on this project.

 

[glypnir]

I think the spring and pin are there to provide a positive hold open on the cylinder. I think our Registered Magnum has one too.

I think the pin goes into the hole when the cylinder is most of the way open.

I have no idea of the value, especially in Switzerland.

 

[handejector]

Hi Swissman,
That is not a 1917- it is correctly called a "455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model".

The oval cutout is called a "Fouling Cup". It allows a place for powder residue, bullet lubricant, and lead to build up without binding the cylinder.

The plunger in the yoke is called a "Yoke Stop". It holds the cylinder in the open position for loading.

What you have called the 'cylinder stop' is properly called the "Frame Lug".

With only one British proof on the butt, I would say it was definitely military.

Nice gun, Probably the original grips- look for the number in PENCIL on the right grip.

If you can live with light pitting, I would say buy it.

 

[gunfish]

Positives, the exterior finish and the stocks are in very good condition. Negatives, the bore has some pitting and the cylinder stop is a bit worn.

What is your intended use for this piece, shooting or collection addition?

If you could shoot it and was accurate, would you mind the extra effort required to clean the bore? Do the stocks have the matching serial number?

These are the questions I would ask myself if I were trying to make a decision.

When I was a small boy, my father gave me 1/4 dollar per week to spend on things I wanted. When I could not made a decision I would flip a coin, if the result pleased me I had made a good decision. If the result did not please me I would flip it again. This does not work for all people.

 

[Kamerer]

Besides the good advice mentioned, that is a military gun that didn't get an "honorable discharge," so to speak. The proofs were added (as I have been told) when the guns left military service and were tested and stamped for export (re-export, technically). I have one just like yours, s/n 60,xxx - with exactly the same mark - a tiny crown on the butt and an "11" under it, and no other marks. These were guns that went home with their soldiers either after the war, or at some point.

I see guns in similar or better condition asking about $700 or so here in the US, so the asking price seems reasonable. Not many trade, so I don't know what a fair value is, but I would be happy to pay for one in that condition $550 to $600. I think the barrel condition, and rust and blue wear areas, definitely move it down from the +$700 area. But that is here - I cannot say what it should be in Europe and the scarcity value. That it is still .455 eley and not altered is a bonus, too.

As an aside, of the guns you have shown recently, THIS is the one that I would want to own over the others, however.

 

[MKT]

At $700 US I would be all over that one. Last one I saw, in lesser shape, was priced out at over $900 California dollars.

 

[semperfi71]

I do not know about .455s. But I know this. Not being able to see the entire bore, but looking at your pic it appears the bore is not that bad and the pitting is shallow.

I would buy it. If you intend to shoot it.

It will probably shoot just fine.

Its probably pitted from corrosive primers of the time period.

 

[Swissman]

I got the chance to shoot the .455 today. Forum-member dani donate the ammo. Here are the results. The group is not bad, but
do low. This is possible to correct with a specific load. But the problem (and the reason for not buying it) are the chambers. Two of them are so wide that it is necessary to press the cases with the cleaningrod out of the cylinder. They bulge up to much. It's sad, but i pass.

You can see the bulged cases #1 and #2.

I will print out this forum-thread and send it with the gun back to the owner.
So he got answers for many questions that another collector asks him.

Swissman

 

[cxm]

Roland,

Have you actually measured the chamber size?

If you are shooting someone else's hand loaded ammo, the reason for the hard ejection might be the ammo and not the gun.

FWIW

Chuck

Originally posted by Swissman:
I got the chance to shoot the .455 today. Forum-member dani donate the ammo. Here are the results. The group is not bad, but
do low. This is possible to correct with a specific load. But the problem (and the reason for not buying it) are the chambers. Two of them are so wide that it is necessary to press the cases with the cleaningrod out of the cylinder. They bulge up to much. It's sad, but i pass.

You can see the bulged cases #1 and #2.

I will print out this forum-thread and send it with the gun back to the owner.
So he got answers for many questions that another collector asks him.

Swissman

 

[Swissman]

Chuck,

No, i didn't measure it. But the difference between the case-diameters after shooting it, is so great, that it was not possible to stick the cases #1 and #2 into the other chambers. I guess this is the reason why the frame-lug is so much worn
out, that the cylinder slips over it, if you press it a bit backwards.

As a reference i used the Webley. No problem at all with the same ammo.

You got e-mail.

Swissman

 

[Texas Star]

Swissman-

Those cases aren't .455 Eley ammo! May be .455 auto. ??

If the cylinder is original, you are shooting the wrong ammo!

T-Star

 

[Swissman]

Texas Star,

Thanks for the comment. I really want to keep this gun after i shot the first six shot. But extraction is/was a drama.

The cases are cut down 45 Colt. And there is nothing wrong with the cases.
The problem is that two chambers are so much bigger in the internal diameter that you have to stick a cleaningrod from the cylinder-front and hammering the case out. If the case were the problem i got to do this with all six chambers. But this is not so. Two chambers got the shape of a wine-barrel. Thats the only explanation.

Swissman

 

[DHENRY]

Swissman,
Just a guess, but it sounds to me like an earlier owner tried two rounds of very hot loads in that fine old gun, then decided against 'blowing out' the other four charge-holes.
Best to pass on the gun, as there's no telling how much metallurgic stress it has been subjected to.
Don

PS...Some good shooting on your part.