.45acp Lyman Book Question.

[Rollbar]

Just received the book and I'm confused on the .45acp and the bullet I will be using.
No, I did not read the entire book yet and to my knowledge this was not covered in my reading of the LEE manual.

With the bullet I will be using which BC should I follow?

Now, if BC is the bullets/ballistic coefficienacy (BC) and the SD is the sectional density (SD) how do I know because it is not stated in the book or on the box.

One is a higher BC, which equals a flatter trajectory, correct?

One OAL=1.161" and the other is 1.235"

Here is a pic / box info of the .45acp I will be using.

IDP #4-XD
.452 diameter
200 grain RNFP
Brinell 18, optimized for action velocities


Please see video attached for the question I am having (easier to discribe/visual).

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxN8yAZs5j0

Thanks,
Jim


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[arjay]

Typically, the top of the case is flush with the top of the driving band or a bit short of that.You need to be aware of how much space the part of the bullet inside of the case is using in comparison to the particular data you're using If its much more than the bullet in the manual the pressure will spike.The oal is secondary,but when you make a dummy round, pull the barrel from the gun and drop the round into it to make sure the round isn't too long

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The BC, SD, ES and AV numbers have nothing to do with seating depth or anything else that has to do with the loading itself. You should seat that bullet right below the top band and then make sure it fits in your barrel correctly. This is why we have a starting load with data, so you can safely load bullets which are slightly different from those used in the development of the data.

 

[mstuhr]

.920

Hi Rollbar,
Anytime I load a semi wad in .45 I set it up at .920 from base to top of the driving band.
I find it makes them feed better than an overall length.
Hope this helps.
Mike

Missed the rnfp part saw 200 grain and chimed in. Sorry!

 

[Rule3]

Here is the scoop on that bullet

As Arch stated forget all those numbers.

That bullet is actually a 45 Colt Bullet.(cowboy #4, in a softer lead) It has a slight crimp groove. The original XD's would not feed some LSWC bullets well. The new XDm changed the feed ramp so no longer a problem.

Just seat the bullet to the crimp groove and taper crimp so the case is just flush with the bullet in that small groove.

Use the start load of a similar weight 200 gr bullet for what powder you have.

I use that bullet as I can shoot it in both 45 Colt and 45 ACP.

Also note that your bullet does not look at all like the two you pointed to in the book

 

[Rollbar]

Ok I'll try to figure it out.

I did make a dummy round and was just going by OAL and not the crimp band, forgot.

Post number 7: http://smith-wessonforum.com/reload...ew-re-loader-more-videos-follow-progress.html

 

[Rollbar]

Ok so I took the dummy round back out and made it up again. Will do a ker-plunk test later.





Thanks,
Jim


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[Rule3]

No, that does not look right to me. I looks like you seated it to the lube groove (the blue lube) right above that is a part of the driving band and then a small groove which is were it should be.

Should be around 1.195 give or take.

 

[Rollbar]

Oh, I did a test and the OAL moved (forgot the factory crimp). I put it in a mag and racked the slide. The lead had a few scratches on it from racking.
So, I pulled the barrel and did a ker-plunk test.
Falls in/out easy.
Here are some picks of the OAL that changed while racking and the bullet in the barrel.

I'm gonna change the OAL to 1.225 as per LEE and the try yours.














Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[Rollbar]

Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[Rule3]

No, forget LEE, Keep in mind this is a odd ball bullet.

It is a Revolver bullet. Most bullets for 45 ACP do not have a crimp groove.

The OAL I gave you is from one of my dummy test rounds. Seat it to the groove.

I have to go now but I will post a pic in the morning.

 

[Rollbar]

Ok it is seated to 1.196 and that is to the grove.
Looks better.

Didn't realize the revolver round thing.

Thanks.





Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[Rollbar]

That OAL seems to look better in the barrel and rack better in both my M1991A1 and my Kimber CDII.

Still would like to see your pic.

So even though the load is for lead, it is different. Still confused a little but grasping it.

I guess we will get to the 38spl OAL on another post when I start on them.

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.

Jim


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[tappedandtagged]

That OAL seems to look better in the barrel and rack better in both my M1991A1 and my Kimber CDII.

Still would like to see your pic.

So even though the load is for lead, it is different. Still confused a little but grasping it.

I guess we will get to the 38spl OAL on another post when I start on them.

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.

Jim


Sent from my iPhone 4S

38 Spl OAL is easy! Seat the bullet so that the case mouth and crimp groove are even! I have no idea what the OAL is on my revolver rounds. I have never measured it. I just seat to the crimp groove and go.

And no need to apologize for the questions. We come to this forum to ask questions when we need help and give help to others when they need it.

 

[Rule3]

That OAL seems to look better in the barrel and rack better in both my M1991A1 and my Kimber CDII.

Still would like to see your pic.

So even though the load is for lead, it is different. Still confused a little but grasping it.

I guess we will get to the 38spl OAL on another post when I start on them.

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions.

Jim


Sent from my iPhone 4S

No picture needed as it looks just like yours That's how that bullet works as it was made for the 45 Colt. When you use, say a 230 gr LRN it will not have that small cannelure.


Again this is not a typical bullet for the 45 ACP but it is good one and you do not have to worry about the OAL It is the cannelure. Just be sure to use the START load of powder.



I am confused by your statement:??

"I'm gonna change the OAL to 1.225 as per LEE and the try yours."

Lee does not give OAL only minimum OAL?? That also varies in the Lee manual depending on the powder. That data came from somewhere else, they just compiled the info.

Any OAL listed in a manual is only good if you use the EXACT same bullet as they did. For example a Speer bullet and a Speer manual. Lee doesn't even list the type of bullet shape just the weight.

 

[Rule3]

OK, here ya go

Same bullet in a 45 Colt and 45 ACP. The Colt(ignore the case crimp, it is the way they are to prevent the bullet from sinking to deep) has more of a roll crimp, not much as the cannelure is so small on this bullet. Pencil shows the groove.
The other is of course the 45 ACP. If you look at were you originally had the bullet seated, there was not much bullet in the case. You do not want to over crimp as the 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth.

 

[fredj338]

BC or SD means NOTHING to you as a reloader for handgun ammo. What matters is does the data you are using match the bullet weight & type (lead, plated or jacketed, JHP or FMJ). THe rest is for arm chair guys to discuss ballistic minutia over.
If you are looking for a proper OAL for YOUR gun, you have to fit the bullet to your gun. There is NO other choice, OAL IS ALWAYS GUN & BULLET specific, REGARDLESS of what the data says. The bullet must fit YOUR gun. So take your removed bbl, make a dummy a bit long round & drop it in. If it fits, then check it all the way down the magazine. If all is good that is the OAL for your gun. If it does not fit, then start seating 0.010" deeper & recheck until it does. Then that is the correct OAL for that bullet ONLY & that bbl ONLY. Yes, it must be checked for each diff gun you intend to shoot that ammo in.

 

[358156hp]

Ballistic Coefficient is the measure of a bullets efficiency as it travels through the air. The BC for such a bullet as you describe would be very minimal. Are you planning on shooting long range (100+ yards) with this combination?

Sectional Density is the measure of a bullets ability to overcome resistance (penetrate) in the target media. It's simply the ratio of the bullets weight versus it's diameter.

A higher Ballistic Coefficient does translate to a flatter trajectory, and increased resistance to wind drift. BUT! a 45 cal bullet of this weight would have such a low BC that it won't really affect the trajectory at common ranges for your caliber (under 50 yards).

I once said on this board that handgun bullets don't have a BC, and I got dogpiled by many, many people who say that it does. Well, it does of course, any projectile does, but it's almost totally insignificant for most applications because of the ranges involved.

Like Fred said- ignore it, it's unimportant in this context.

You've received some really good advice on bullet seating depth, and I won't confuse matters by adding my two cents on the topic.

 

[Rollbar]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, thank you - ALL of you.

Great help the understanding now that ALL of you explained it.

I will make sure I work hard and do it right.

Thanks again for ALL the help-I must admit, was freaking out a little, and tossing my hands up in the air some until the explanation was made.

Some times I don't get things right off (medical issue) but I try

Thanks again,
Jim

P.S. I need to be a member of this here board (after I can pay for the press, money is tight) to help out a wonderful place to learn/chat.

 

[Rollbar]

Quick question, what do you use the 45 (Is that a long Colt) Colt for ?

I have heard of the 45 colt revolver but why ?

Maybe this should be in another post-if so I can delete this one and start one.

Thanks,
Jim