45Auto for personal protection

Glassers are NOT reputed to be stopped by drywall or other lighter materials according to SOME reviews I read.

I have some and I know a several suburban friends who stoke their guns with them hoping not to penetrate their neighbors home.

One other wiser friend uses 380 and 32 in his home. Based on the energy of the loadings it won't pass through his walls... Engineers and their calculations...
 
I keep a couple magazines of Federal 165gr Hydrashock next to my 1911, with a box of Winchester 230gr JHPs next to that. Both feed flawlessly.
 
I carry 230 gr. FMJ ball in .45 ACP. Why? Because it feeds all the time. I've tried other things with mixed results. I'd even use 230 round nose lead too. It works.
 
Yes Chaz!
They key is the one that'll "run"!
I can't recall which Forum member it was who issued about the best treatise on it I've read. It went something along the lines of,
#1 The thing that runs.
#2 The one that's the most accurate of #1's selection.
#3 The best performing bullet that rates the highest on scales #1 and #2.
My version isn't as polished as the one I read, and I wish I'd have saved it?
 
Well I picked up a box of Golden Saber 185 grn +P. Ran about 7 rounds threw my 457 with great performance. I felt a little extra recoil, but, nothing that was not manageable. The one thing I did notice above all is how accurate the GS is. I mean those rounds go right where you aim them. Truely a top of the line product. On the way out of the range I noticed that they had got a few boxes of GS 230grn 45 auto. NOT +P. I grabed one and figure I will load up with those. Again, very impressed with the product.

leeharry
 
Leeharry, be aware that by changing bullet weight you're using a different load and your gun may have a different opinion regarding that load than it did with 185+Ps.

Spot, I think you pretty much said #s 1, 2 and 3 as well as I've ever heard anyone say it.

Gutpile Charlie, you might be well served by loading your .45 with Corbon Powerball, or Federal EFMJ if/when you can find some.
 
Thanks flop-shank. Your point is well taken. I will run a magazine full of 230 grain threw my M457 to make sure they perform as well as the 1185+P.

leeharry
 
Running a pack (in the case of Glasers) or a magazine or two of ammunition through a gun does not guarantee that it will "work" when needed. Since you only get one chance for X load to work, most people who are serious run somewhere around 200-250 rounds of a given load through a gun before they trust it. It also helps to practice with your carry load.

Anyway, the .45 in FMJ 230 grain format, delivers about 18" of penetration in gelatin. Not that gelatin necessarily shows what will happen in a human since skin, bones, and organs all have different consistencies and such. However, the original IWBA penetration standard was in fact 18" or more. The FBI standard was later 12" or more. People always seem to forget the "or more" part of things.

For a given bullet to be effective, it must reach the vital structures of a body. After that is a accomplished, then worry about maximizing tissue damage. (This is the "poke a hole theory" and doesn't account for the potential damage done by higher velocity projectiles, but this is the .45 ACP we're talking about and not a .357 Sig or a rifle, thus it is all about "poke a hole".)

If someone cannot afford - or these days given shortages even obtain - sufficient modern JHP to test/practice with, then FMJ is probably a better choice.

I'd certainly use FMJ over Glasers. While Glasers will penetrate heavy clothing, and sometimes even dry wall, they tend not to do so well in terms of penetrating flesh. Certainly getting penetration to vital organs is likely to be an issue.
 
mkk41 wrote: "I've run at least a pack thru each of the guns I use them in..." - If I remember correctly, Glasers are sold in packages of six cartridges each. It seems to me that you still have 33 packs per gun to go before you meet the minimum '200 round without ANY malfunction' test for 'bet your life' reliability. I don't know your financial situation, but even if Glasers were worth it, I could not afford the price (it was hard enough to get the requisite two cases of Gold Dot to test it our three carry pistols).

I am glad that your dog incidents worked out in your favor, but I will not use Glasers (even in a revolver) because I cannot be certain that they will reach the vitals. As for conventional hollow points failing to open in skinny targets, most of the current 'generation' of hollow point bullets will be nearly fully opened after one and a half to two inches of penetration. There is a good high speed photo in the 'Gun Zone' website of a .45 ACP bullet that is fully expanded as it exits a two inch 'jelly block'.
 
I was lucky enough to have bought 500 Winchester Black Talons before they were pulled off shelves So I carry 230g Black Talons in 220 Sig. When I carry my 45.
 
Originally posted by ldubu:
I was lucky enough to have bought 500 Winchester Black Talons before they were pulled off shelves So I carry 230g Black Talons in 220 Sig. When I carry my 45.
Sell them. There are better, more modern loads out there and people not in the know will pay a king's ransom for the things.
 
Originally posted by flop-shank:
Originally posted by ldubu:
I was lucky enough to have bought 500 Winchester Black Talons before they were pulled off shelves So I carry 230g Black Talons in 220 Sig. When I carry my 45.
Sell them. There are better, more modern loads out there and people not in the know will pay a king's ransom for the things.
I know I sold some about 5yrs ago for $25 a box of 20
 
I started this topic in quest of the best round to use for all around safety. I have got a great deal of good input and thakfull for it. I settled on the Remington GS 230 grn jhp non +P. I did this knowing that I would never be able to afford to fire two or three hundred rounds as a function test. Yet, I have fired three to five hundred rounds of 230grn fmj ball ammo. with my M457 without any problems. My main reason for swithcing to a jhp was to guard (as much as possible) against over penitration and ricochy. I have been told that a hollow point is far less likely to go threw one person to hit another and also less likely to rickochy. I think that the hollow point will also not travel as far as ball. If I am not correct on this please let me know. I would gladly switch back to 230 gran fmj ball. I know it will feed without malfunctiton and ,well, cowboys, indians and the military have used it in lead or jacket form for over a hundred years. Thats good enough for me.

leeharrsouth
 
In NJ, the only state that I'm aware of that has outlawed the use of hollowpoints (law enforcement is excluded) except for target shooting and some hunting applications (N.J.S.2C:39-3), we are put in a very questionable legal position if we plan to use them in our home protection firearms.
We either choose ball ammo, with the resultant potential for overpenetration (a big concern in our crowded urban and suburban environments) or opt for specialty rounds such as the Glasers.
We can buy hollowpoints, keep them in our dwellings, and use them for the purposes above, but to use them in a self-defense situation even in the home could open us up for criminal and civil prosecution.
That said, it's a Sig 220 with both 230 Ball and Glasers. I won't say which mag goes in first.
Another reason to stay out of NJ.
 
Thats government regulation for you. Protect yourself with a round that will go threw the bad guy and possibly hit someone else, a Glaser that may not penetrate a heavy leather jacket or use a low penetration round (HP) and go to jail. I may be wrong, but, that just dont seem right. What is NJ position on possibility of overpenitration with ball ammo. Maybe I got it all wrong.

leeharry

leeharry
 
Lee Harry, it's not right. This law was passed based on the "cop-killer bullet" hype in the early 90's. No real basis in fact, of course, since HP's don't penetrate vests (except those pointy one's which they'd like to outlaw next.
The exemption for law enforcement, shows that they well knew the value of HP's in terms of both stopping power and lack of excessive penetration for police. They just wanted to restrict its use by the general public.
 
This is a good example why we should all support the NRA and make sure we get out and vote. Here down south things seem to be moving more to the favor of personal gun rights,that is, at least for now.

leeharry
 
I think you made a good choice. Any of the modern jacketed hollowpoint loadings in .45 ACP from the major makers should work well in a fight. Your S&W pistol tends to cycle anything and everything you feed it (the metal framed .45 ACP pistols of S&W's M-645/4506/4516/457 series are probably the most reliable semiautos S&W has ever made), and you know your current round cycles in it. You can carry the combination in confidence. I don't think any other handgun and ammo combination will leave you substantially better armed.

If you can, try to get some good training. Also, try to get to the range at least once a month, if possible, and shoot a box of ball. Shooting a handgun is a perishable skill and knowing WHEN to shoot is as important as knowing HOW to shoot.
 
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