460 Reloading Questions

[DuneShoot]

I picked up a 460 with an 8 3/8" barrel and so far have shot a box of HSM 320gr bear loads to try out the pistol. It was all that was in stock at the time.

I plan to reload for it using: Redding dies on a Dillon 550, Hornady 240gr XTP mag, H110, WLR primers, and Hornady & Starline brass.

1. How important is it to change out the muzzle device/brake when going from the HSM lead to the Hornady bullets? It's easy to do just wondering why.

2. Crimp-how much is enough and how to tell, or do you just try a few then adjust? After firing the HSM rounds I noticed some of the cases were set back in the cylinder a small amount.

3. Trimming: how often do you find you need to trim and what trimmer do you recommend? All I have that may work is the Lyman case prep center. The rest of my trimmers are for rifle.

4. Reduced loads: Is it safe to load below Hornadys recommendation?

5. Accuracy: What amount of powder have you found to be the most accurate using the above mentioned components?

6. Zeroing: at what distance is it recommended to zero this pistol? Primary function for me is a range toy.

Thanks for any info!

 

[iouri]

I can chime in with couple

2. With H110 you want heavy crimp.
3. Straight cases usually don't need trimming. You can trim them once to get uniform length, though.
4. There's no reduced loads with your powder of choice - don't download it below min specified in manual. For reduced loads you need faster powder. Accurate has section "reduced loads in their manual" with speed about 1200 fps.

 

[colt_saa]

In answer to #1

The comp for lead projectiles blocks off the top ports so that your front sight does not get dirty from vaporized lead

You can actually shoot any projectiles through any comp

It just makes your cleanup easier


In regards to #2 and #4

iouri is spot on.

ALWAYS heavy crimp H110 loads and NEVER reduce H110 loads.


In regards to #3

In more then four decades of hand loading I have never found it necessary to trim a straight wall handgun casing


In regards to #5

All firearms are different. Learning whee that sweet spot is for YOUR revovler is part of he fun of being a hand loader


In regards to #6

I am not too sure I understand your question. Just Zero it at the distance you are shooting it.

 

[ruggyh]

1. How important is it to change out the muzzle device/brake when going from the HSM lead to the Hornady bullets? It's easy to do just wondering why.- its not important- I keep the lead comp in mine -though I rarely shoot lead out the gun - if you are sensitive you might notice a little more muzzle rise

2. Crimp-how much is enough and how to tell, or do you just try a few then adjust? After firing the HSM rounds I noticed some of the cases were set back in the cylinder a small amount. Good crimp is required for a but the mildest of rounds to prevent bullet creep- the heavier the bullet the morely you are to have creep

3. Trimming: how often do you find you need to trim and what trimmer do you recommend? All I have that may work is the Lyman case prep center. The rest of my trimmers are for rifle.You will need to trim for consistent crimp- Hornady brass moves more than Starline- suggest you use Starline

4. Reduced loads: Is it safe to load below Hornadys recommendation? H110 should not be used below case fill of 90%- plebty of other powders to chose from depending on amount of reduction you are looking for- try 2400 for mid range loads with the lighter bullets and 4227 with the hevier ones- off course there are many others that will work- avoid fast powders when creating reduced recoil loads- save yourself from potenial reloading disaster

5. Accuracy: What amount of powder have you found to be the most accurate using the above mentioned components? The 460 cartridge is very forgiving and will produce remarkable tight groups over a wide range of loading with suitable powders and good bullets- stick with #9, 2400, Enforcer, H110, N110, 4227 and you should be fine

6. Zeroing: at what distance is it recommended to zero this pistol? Primary function for me is a range toy. Sight to the range you plan on using the gun, with a scope mine are sighted at 100 yards (7.5", 10.5", and 12
' barrels) or 200 yards for 14"- 50 for dots and 25 yards for open sights- if your eyesight is not tired like mine you could go longer with your open sights.

Your wont limit your use - just more to remember when using in the field


be safe
Ruggy

 

[buck460XVR]

^^^Excellent reply from ruggyh.

Only question I have for the OP is what he stated here....."2. Crimp-how much is enough and how to tell, or do you just try a few then adjust? After firing the HSM rounds I noticed some of the cases were set back in the cylinder a small amount.

Crimp should have nuttin' to do with case position in the cylinder after firing. If you are talking bullets set back in the cases, bullets in revolvers don't "set back" from recoil, but jump out or get pulled from the case from recoil. If you are seeing bullet jump from factory loads, there ain't much you can do but avoid them in the future....and yes, you need to crimp heavy enough to prevent bullet jump. If you are seeing bullet setback in your revolver, I don;pt know what to tell ya. At some point experience will tell you when you have enough crimp, but until then, the only way it to check the fifth round in the chamber for "jump" after shooting the other four rounds. As ruggyh says, consistent case length is what it takes for consistent heavy crimps in .460. Another thing I agree with him on is to stick with Starline brass.

 

[DuneShoot]

I simply mentioned case position in the cylinder to reinforce the fact that this is a heavy recoiling pistol. Preaching to the choir

I'm still unsure how heavy a crimp I need. Really no way to measure crimp that I'm aware of. I'll crimp to what I think is 'heavy' and test them. Will check the 5th round as you mentioned.
I already have Hornady and Starline brass. I'll use both until they are worn out.

 

[buck460XVR]

I already have Hornady and Starline brass. I'll use both until they are worn out.

You will find the Starline will hold up longer to heavy loads than the Hornady. Don't know why, just my experience. Also in my experience, is that .460 brass resembles rifle brass as in how many heavy loadings it will take. Not anything like the lifespan of .44 and .357.

 

[3rdgeargrndrr]

I load hot and anneal after 2 loads. Currently on their 4th load but I do have hundreds of cases. I keep them meticulously separated by firings.

Oh. Hornady bullets and LilGun powder give me best accuracy and speed.

 

[Imissedagain]

Good read and timely.
Thx
Have RCBS dies and Starline on the way.
200gr & 300gr of those accurate XTPs are on hand.

Would be nice to have the Penn lead 458WinMag Spitzers I plink with in the smaller 460 S&W Mag....... better name than plain old 45 S&W Mag???
Confused me

Had a 5” in my hand today at Bass Pro ...... just gets ugly at the business end.

Might run five 45LC leads just because .....but it’s a 460 and will always be loaded that way.
Need bigger cargo shorts for the tropics most likely.

Anyone have experience with the 3.5” ?.... thx.
At 100 yards?

 

[DuneShoot]

I'm using Redding dies. Sizing die is adjusted per the instructions to touch the base plate on the Dillon.
Hornady's book calls for the OD of the case to be .478.
A once fired case measures .478.

A new unsized Starline case measures .4750 and drops into the cylinder perfectly.
I resized one new case and you can clearly see by the 'ring' left towards the base that it made it smaller.It now measures .469.

Does this seem normal and is this safe to use? See attached photo of the 'ring'. Case at the bottom is the resized one.

Also case lenght from the unsized to the sized went from 1.791 to 1.801

 

[Imissedagain]

While others can address that question.... I’m from the
“trim the case” school of loading and tools that produce consistent results.
Lyman Universal has been reliable over the years.

On a side note .... just ran a variety of 22LR thru a new MKIV Ruger Stainless Target..... no issues either hand.
The 460 Snub later this week...... the freight industry hopefully on time!

 

[iouri]

The 460 Snub later this week...... the freight industry hopefully on time!

Do you own one with longer barrel ? Just curious how snub in super mag (460, 500) compares to long barrel.

 

[Trooper224]

I was at the range a couple of days ago and two guys were shooting one of these in the lane next to me. When you can feel the concussion inside your skull on the other side of the partition it gets pretty obnoxious. They weren't hitting much but seemed to be happy making noise, good for them. The thing was, they left at least twenty or thirty empty cases lying on the floor when they left. That's a lot of money left to lie.

 

[muddocktor]

I'm using Redding dies. Sizing die is adjusted per the instructions to touch the base plate on the Dillon.
Hornady's book calls for the OD of the case to be .478.
A once fired case measures .478.

A new unsized Starline case measures .4750 and drops into the cylinder perfectly.
I resized one new case and you can clearly see by the 'ring' left towards the base that it made it smaller.It now measures .469.

Does this seem normal and is this safe to use? See attached photo of the 'ring'. Case at the bottom is the resized one.

Also case lenght from the unsized to the sized went from 1.791 to 1.801

I don't have a 460, but I see this all the time with my 44 Mag and 357 Mag brass. The high pressure rounds like those 3 will expand the case to fit in the cylinder's chambers. And when you resize, the die will resize to minimum specs, but it cannot resize the case any further than you see on your case because the tungsten carbide or titanium nitride sizing ring cannot resize past the case holder, plus there is a little radiused lead in on the resizing ring that doesn't resize to minimum specs either, otherwise you would have hell getting the case mouth started into the die. I've run into no problems in 40+ years of resizing 357 brass and 30+ years of 44 brass because of this. I imagine that since the 460 Mag is even a higher pressure cartridge than the ones I load for the effect shows up quicker. It usually takes 2 or 3 loadings for me before my brass shows this as prominently as yours.

 

[DuneShoot]

The brass case I resized today was new and unfired.
I also reload 357 and 44 with dillon dies and have never seen this.

 

[Imissedagain]

Do you own one with longer barrel ? Just curious how snub in super mag (460, 500) compares to long barrel.

I don’t and some of my shooting friends, who haven’t dropped dead yet, were old school “J” frame carrying Pilots...... easy loads in a 1911/45ACP are too brutal for their tender hands.

I’ll chrono all our Snubs and post results this summer.
The 3.5” was my first thought for advertising though having two 8.375” Smiths.... deserves a page, photoshop is a good tool, but finally having a Snub in 45 carries better for my days in the field.....and for great conversations to unfold.
I’ll build a 458 Socom ASAP for my family in the Rockies as a double is pricy.

 

[Imissedagain]

I simply mentioned case position in the cylinder to reinforce the fact that this is a heavy recoiling pistol. Preaching to the choir

I'm still unsure how heavy a crimp I need. Really no way to measure crimp that I'm aware of. I'll crimp to what I think is 'heavy' and test them. Will check the 5th round as you mentioned.
I already have Hornady and Starline brass. I'll use both until they are worn out.

You can look at close up photos of factory ammo and use that as a guide.
Most likely those factory cases were trimmed prior to the next step!!!!!

 

[Imissedagain]

I load hot and anneal after 2 loads. Currently on their 4th load but I do have hundreds of cases. I keep them meticulously separated by firings.

Oh. Hornady bullets and LilGun powder give me best accuracy and speed.

I treat my 458 WinMag cases the same way..... don’t anneal as often but appreciate the tip for those wee little 460s.

 

[DuneShoot]

Does anyone have any insight on my resizing issue?

 

[ruggyh]

Does anyone have any insight on my resizing issue?

You don't have a resizing issue- you have an understanding issue.

As mention previously the "ring" at the bottom is the result of the sizing ring not being able to go any further during the sizing process- perfectly normal.

How pronounced this is depends on the actual size of the sizing ring in the die and actual size of the brass.

Sizing dies are typically size smaller than new brass, this is to account for spring back of the case that occurs.

Every process the brass goes through has some effect. If you measure your brass of a loaded cartridge and then fire it you will find it is now shorter and body is larger. the side of the case hase been pushed to the chamber walls and pressure and recoil forces have compressed the length- remember in a 460 we are typically talking about 52 to 55 kpsi.

In the sizing process we are the forcing the expanded brass through the sizing ring contracting its sides and while we removed the die we are then stretching it. This is what causes the brass to get longer or grow- no the shooting.

Measure your brass after it is sized- trim it to the length of the shortest length- it is not going to matter what that length is as long as it is reasonably close to SAAMI minimum.

Seat your bullets into the cannalure and provide a good roll crimp. A good crimp is essential to prevent bullet creep.

be safe
Ruggy

 

[DuneShoot]

Thank you ruggy. I will load up some rounds using this die and try them.

 

[sw282]

l only neck size my revolver cases... App 3/4'' on 460 cases.. Not a big

fan of Hornady cases.. l lucked up on some Federal 460 Nickel cases

awhile back. l am liking those. l always trim my cases. lts a habit l got

in years ago.. Speer Manuel has reduced 460 loads.. 2400 is your friend.

H110 not so much.. Roll crimp, as with any revolver ctg...

 

[DuneShoot]

So full length sizing is not needed with 460? If not I can use what I have now.
I can insert a fire unsized case into the cylinder easily until the last 1/8". At that point it needs a little more pressure to insert where as new unfired cases drop right in.

If full length is needed what sizer die does everyone recommend?

I'm using a dillon press so I need a separate seat and crimp die, both of which came in the Redding set.

 

[Imissedagain]

Does anyone have any insight on my resizing issue?

While it was answered above.... the ring appears on the Starline brass run thru new RCBS dies.
Someday I’ll have a gun to use!

Then there’s this RING:
Ring of Fire - Smith & Wesson .460 Magnum XVR 3.5" barrel - YouTube