5-screw J-Frame with high serial?

[Litak45]

Greetings all. I am trying to help a friend ID a gun acquired from an estate sale. I have been browsing a few sources online and all indications are that its a 5-screw J-frame .38 snubby from the early 1950's. However, the serial number on the grip looks to be way too high for that era, I was hoping someone might help shed some light on it.

It has the four screws on the frame and one in front of the trigger guard. There is no model number stamped on the outside of the frame.

The butt is square, front sight is rounded with serrations.
Inside the frame when the cylinder is open is a number "545XX" and the number on the cylinder crane is the same but one digit higher.

This all seems to point to it being an early 1950's gun, but the serial number on the grip is "915XXX" which seems way too high from any of the references I have seen.

I am told the gun originally belonged to a police officer from Los Angeles. Is it possible the serial number was from some run of guns made for a department or something?

Pictures:

 

[handejector]

That is a K frame from the early days of WW II- about 1940-41.

 

[Litak45]

Oh, guess I was barking up the wrong tree then looking for j frame related sources figures. Any references you could point me towards?

 

[scha]

Is it 38 Special or 38 S&W? Also, can you provide a photo of the barrel? Most revolvers of this vintage had either a 4 inch or 5 inch barrel. Many have been cut down over the years. Are there matching serial numbers on the bottom of the barrel and the rear face of the cylinder?

Hope this helps.

Steve

 

[DCWilson]

A couple of more points: the round dowel in the base plugs a hole where a lanyard loop was found in the original configuration. Also, those stocks are from the 1920s, so they are a later modification to the gun, perhaps to replace worn or damaged original stocks.

Does the caliber designation on the barrel say .38 S&W CTG or .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG? If the former, the gun was originally built for the British, which used the .38/200 round in military revolvers -- that's the old .38 S&W round with a 200 gr bullet.

Many British revolvers were rechambered to .38 Special and reimported to the United States after WWII for sale in the civilian market. If this is a British Service Revolver, your friend should see if it will chamber a .38 Special round.

If the gun is marked for the .38 Special cartridge, it was intended for American consumption and may have been deliver to the Defense Supplies Corporation or a military force.

I actually think this gun might have shipped in very early 1942, at which time the US was not only supporting the Commonwealth countries but was a declared participant in the war as well.

 

[Litak45]

Here is a shot of the barrel. It is marked "38 S&W SPC CTG"
The gun came with some old boxes of .38 Special 158 grain and 148 grain wadcutter target rounds and it definitely chambers them comfortably.

I checked the other places for numbers. The cylinder face is stamped "915XXX" which matches the number on the grip.

Beneath the barrel is stamped "1214XX" which doesn't match any other numbers I have found. There might also be a "C" under there. Here is a photo of that.

 

[murphydog]

The barrel is a replacement from a late 1940s gun of the same general type.

 

[Litak45]

So if I am getting everything straight, then this firearm started life in the early 40's as a K-frame with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, chambered in .38 special and intended for the Defense Supplies Corporation or possibly military. It was later re-barreled from some other 1940's era gun. And refit with its current grips and lanyard hold plugged

Which could have subsequently made its way to an LA police department where my friend's father carried it. Or perhaps it was war surplus picked up privately by him, I don't know if this was his issued duty gun.

It has holster wear on the finish and a few little nicks here and there, but it doesn't look to be that old or worn, I wouldn't think it was issued during WWII unless it was refinished at some point too.

 

[handejector]

So if I am getting everything straight, then this firearm started life in the early 40's as a K-frame with a 4 or 5 inch barrel, chambered in .38 special

We don't know what caliber it started as.
See if the cylinder number matches the butt number.
Show a pic of the chambers, and we might be able to tell you if it is an orig 38 Spec, or a reamed 38 S&W. It will depend on the quality of the pic.

 

[Litak45]

Here is a shot looking down the chambers. The serial numbers on the cylinder face and the grip match each other.

It doesn't have any military markings or stamps and no V's near the serials anywhere. Possibly a pre-victory? Someone mentioned the trigger had been changed out, possibly when the barrel was, as its a grooved faced trigger.

 

[handejector]

That is an original 38 Special cylinder.
The trigger was also originally grooved in that gun.

 

[murphydog]

If you look on the inside of the right stock (grip) panel, you may find a penciled or stamped number that will not match the 915xxx, because they are from a gun from the 1920s decade. It likely had uncheckered walnut stocks that look similar to these.

 

[gordonrick]

So this is probably a late pre-war commercial M&P? I think a letter from Mr. Jinks is in order!

Those are sweet grips (stocks) original or not. Nice K-frame snubby!

 

[handejector]

So this is probably a late pre-war commercial M&P? I think a letter from Mr. Jinks is in order!

Doubtful.
It has apparently been reblued when rebarreled, and that could have removed the gov't markings.
Either way, having been modified, I could not advise spending $50 for a letter unless he really wants to.

 

[Litak45]

Well thank you all very much, everyone that chimed in with some information. Its been a bit of a roller coaster finding out some of the past of this gun, very interesting. I hadn't known much at all about revolvers or Smith and Wessons in particular but through researching this and other things I've picked up a little more lore for the collection.

So, over all, I am getting the impression that while this particular pistol might have a somewhat interesting history and peculiar circumstances, that its not exactly a highly valuable collectable. Lacking any military stamps/marks, and having been modified with a different barrel/grips/re-blued its far from original condition. Would anyone hazard a guess as to its approximate value? Somewhere in the 300-400 dollar range perhaps?