500 Cylinder Rotates During Recoil?

[Motor1]

I know I started a thread on this a few months ago but couldn't find it.

This past Sunday I was shooting my 8 3/8" 500 S&W with full power factory ammo. I was shooting from a benchrest and firing single action.

After firing a round then cocking the hammer to fire the next I found the round I just had fired is back in battery.

Is Smith & Wesson addressing the issue or what?

We have 3 of these and all 3 will do this. All 3 are early production.

Motor1

 

[cal50]

It can happen from a too light a grip or a death grip.

.500 S&W Double Taps - The Firearm Blog

 

[Muss Muggins]

I know I started a thread on this a few months ago but couldn't find it.

This past Sunday I was shooting my 8 3/8" 500 S&W with full power factory ammo. I was shooting from a benchrest and firing single action.

After firing a round then cocking the hammer to fire the next I found the round I just had fired is back in battery.

Is Smith & Wesson addressing the issue or what?

We have 3 of these and all 3 will do this. All 3 are early production.

Motor1

Pretty sure they won't address the issue unless you tell them. Oh, and have somebody else shoot it . . .

 

[M29since14]

This used to happen with the older 44 Magnums when the heavy-bullet craze came along and guys were shooting 300-gr loads in the 29-2 and earlier guns. If there is anything wrong with your .500 I'm sure S&W will fix it for you.

 

[Motor1]

I guess I'm just going to have to contact them.

Just to answer the question: It dosn't matter who is shooting it. I know of 5 different people all grown men with most having decent to above average pistol shooting skills.

I personally have decided to just shoot lower power loads but the fact that they do this is kinda disturbing and definitely disappointing.

Motor 1

 

[M29since14]

Why not send them back? There is no reason to not have them fixed unless you just can't part with them for a while. You may just need a heavier spring or something simple that won't take a long time. As MM said, they can't help if you don't let them know you have a problem.

 

[ruggyh]

This a shooter issue not a gun issue . You are resetting the trigger under recoil.

Watch the slow motion video done by S&W which clearing shows how this occurs.

Read this thread http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/191611-advice-new-would-500-s-w-magnum-shooters.html

Get an experienced big bore revolver shooter to shoot your gun. I had 2 guys next to me last week with the same issue and I had no problems with thier gun, they were in disbelief.

Post a video of you shooting the gun.

 

[cal50]

This a shooter issue not a gun issue . You are resetting the trigger under recoil.

Bingo and doubtful its the revolver.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Bingo and doubtful its the revolver.

It is very rarely the gun, but send backs keep the lights on . . .

 

[Motor1]

Bingo and doubtful its the revolver.

I don't disagree with you fellows but if it happens to enough people at some point you have to admit it was at least some kind of design oversight.

The fact is if this was a single action revolver it would still be awesome and would not have this problem with anyone shooting it.

Motor 1

 

[ruggyh]

BFR makes a single action 500 S&W.
Shoot a bore single action before you buy, the recoil behaves much differently, lots of guys end up with split lips and broken noses.

Trigger control is a learned skill and not everyone takes the time or practice required to handle these and other big bore double action revolvers competently.

Handling other calibers does not qualify an individual to shoot a 500 with the same skill. The 500 is 3 to 4 energy of a 44, it is not a little jump.

The 500 and similar calibers are great guns, but not for everyone.

Start out slow with lighter loads and develop the control required to master this gun with full power loads. It is the real challenge that drives the big bore hand gun enthusiast and leads to becoming a real shootist.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[Motor1]

I know what you mean. Shooting it isn't the problem. I was never a above average shot with any pistol but I shoot this 500 as good or better then any pistol I've ever owned.

It's just annoying when you can shoot the thing that well accuracy wise but have it do this cylinder unlocking thing.

I have no problem with it shooting 440gr cast bullets even up to 1450f/s which is plenty enough for anything around here. So this is very likely where I'll keep it.

Motor 1

 

[mqqn]

I have an early production Performance Center .500 - never had the problem you speak of.

The gun has over 700 rounds through it, about half and half XTP and my own top loads, both with 380 grain bullets.

I have let many of my students fire this piece, and never had a problem, although with the students I "barney fife" them - one cartridge.

Good luck - I highly doubt you have three guns with the same problem, but stranger things have happened.

best

mqqn

 

[Motor1]

I first thought it would only do it with the heavy cast Cor Bon factory ammo but my brother's did it shooting 300gr FTX top end loads too.

He was shooting double action and thought at first he had some kind of misfire then noticed he had just dropped the hammer on an empty cartridge. The one he just fired.

Motor 1

 

[old 1911 fan]

I have a 4" S&W .500. I fired factory loads to get the brass. Then I went to reloading lead. Never had a problem. I still shoot both. It doesn't get shot much. But it's somewhere around here. With those hot factory zingers and my favorite lighter lead loads that I love so!

old 1911 fan

 

[Qball]

After firing a round then cocking the hammer to fire the next I found the round I just had fired is back in battery.
Motor1

I had the same problem with a 629
I changed the cylinder stop and the spring, and the problem never came back.

 

[cal50]

I don't disagree with you fellows but if it happens to enough people at some point you have to admit it was at least some kind of design oversight.

If you are handing the same revolver to inexperienced / unfamiliar heavy magnum shooters you will likely have the same results. Its unlike any other typical magnum revolver especially loaded up hot and heavy.

You may want to try some reduced or lighter loads and see if you have similar results. There is a balance between gripping firm enough to control the gun and letting it freely recoil while maintaining trigger control and not doubling it.

Its not a design oversight , its a high pressure magnum projectile launching platform and everyone known when launch occurs.......

 

[jcelect]

Trigger slap

Welcome to my world! You are "slapping" the trigger during the recoil of the heavy bullet after the round is fired! Squeeze the trigger and hold it against the stop until after recoil. The cylinder latch is released in the first slightest movement of the trigger! You can observe this by holding the gun so you can look thru the cylinder window on the bottom and pull the trigger(very slowly).
jcelect

 

[Motor1]

jcelect, Yes I have observed that. I also noticed how freely the cylinder turns. The fact that it rotates clockwise is also now very clearly understood. We usually only load 2 to 3 rounds when shooting at the range so during the recoil sequence the cylinder is heavy on the right hand side. So when the cylinder unlocks it naturally turns heavy side down.

This is also very likely why my brothers never had it happen while hunting. While the cylinder is full its balanced even if the 12 o'clock hole is empty.

We shot 2 of the 3 today with 440gr cast bullets. The velocity according to the load data should be around 1450f/s. Both pistols and I guess shooters, had no problems with this load.

BTW: We installed a new Burris Fastfire III on one of them. A warranty replacement. The old big tube style Burris speed dot was literally blow apart by the 500. We're hoping the Fastfire III will hold up using these less than top end loads.

Motor

 

[shawn mccarver]

I know I started a thread on this a few months ago but couldn't find it.

This past Sunday I was shooting my 8 3/8" 500 S&W with full power factory ammo. I was shooting from a benchrest and firing single action.

After firing a round then cocking the hammer to fire the next I found the round I just had fired is back in battery.

Is Smith & Wesson addressing the issue or what?

We have 3 of these and all 3 will do this. All 3 are early production.

Motor1

This issue was found and corrected relatively early in the 500 production.

It is caused by the cylinder stop spring being too weak in the early guns. When the gun recoils, the cylinder stop is not held in place due to violent recoil. The cylinder comes free of the cylinder stop, but amazingly remains stationary, while the frame essentially rotates 1/5 of a turn around the stationary cylinder during the twisting motion experienced during recoil (you are likely right-handed, but it probably does not matter), leaving the just-fired charge hole next up so that when you cycle the action again you get a click instead of a bang because the hammer is dropping on the charge hole just fired. S&W will replace your spring and you are good to go.

This strange phenomenon was discovered first by John Ross, who was experimenting with very heavy bullets - 600 to 700 grains - and who then brought it to the attention of Herb Belin at S&W. Belin confirmed that the factory had also experienced the problem, and confirmed Ross' diagnosis with their high speed photography. In case you recognize the name, this is the same John Ross who authored the book "Unintended Consequences" and who developed his own 5 inch version of the Model 500.

This issue is explained very thoroughly in the new N Frame book by author T.J. Mullin available from Collector Grade Publications.