Quality Control

[Winter2020]

Again another performance center.Sent it back the next day probably want see gun again for months.Its been delivered there and sitting there for days but they said hasn't been received in there system.They said it's normal to have chips like that during the process of making the trigger.A brand new $1900.00 gun.

 

[Gunz50]

On a production run gun that costs 150. To 250. Maybe a crappy trigger like that would be "passable " but on a premium grade major manufacturer gun that costs that much, no freaking way. You need to follow up with as many calls as necessary and move up the food chain to get this taken care of, just keep everything civil, don't take a bs explanation that this is normal and acceptable, because it is not. Good luck hope it goes well and fast.

 

[joebuck]

What junk. You can see the really bad flash line from the MIM process also. No pride anymore. Just get a full refund. I'm sure there will be other issues with it also. That trigger is "normal" if your production shop is in a jungle in the Philippines.

 

[ameridaddy]

No excuse for those chips.
I also noticed the crappy roll pin trigger stop with grinding flash around the perimeter. That's what the "Performance Center", more like Clown Show, did to my 25-5 three years ago, which wasn't even necessary because N frames then had an internal trigger stop. It wasn't the only thing they messed up, but now I see it was no fluke, just SOP shoddy workmanship. The worst thing they did was the so-called trigger job, where they shoved the hammer and trigger contact points into a buffing wheel instead of using stones and jigs, taking off the color case, polishing and rounding the sear engagement, filing the double action sear out of square and introducing terrible, mushy trigger creep. The gun shot 8" above POA at 25 yds, so their fix was to file .025" off the front sight, raising POI even more.

 

[Tinkertech]

OMG...............

I could have done it for you a lot cheaper.

I have a bench grinder in my garage!

Some or a lot of these performance center experts need to be fired.

 

[Hawg Rider]

It's one reason that so many folks are buying the new Colt snake guns instead of S&W revolvers! Very poor machining and QC!

 

[Tennessee Cattleman]

Smith & Wesson needs better quality control. Professional gunsmiths need to oversee revolver machining and assembly and do a final quality control inspection. The final inspection doesn't mean just a quick glance at the gun either. Wouldn't really take much to make the current S&W revolvers very fine firearms, providing the lock holes are done away with altogether.

 

[zodraz]

It's one reason that so many folks are buying the new Colt snake guns instead of S&W revolvers! Very poor machining and QC!

The new CZ Python is far from "trouble free ". Mine had a trigger pull worthy of a Charter Arms.
Actually had visible hammer lift IN SINGLE ACTION!.
I guess we are better off buying old guns,in good condition.

 

[bobsguns]

It's one reason that so many folks are buying the new Colt snake guns instead of S&W revolvers! Very poor machining and QC!

My last 3-4 revolvers have been all Colts. I did manage to sneak in a Smith 648 in there, not a PC model.

Much like Beretta has done in their TN relocation, I bet Smith has hired a bunch of non-gun DEI types.......................

 

[bigggbbruce]

Just get a full refund.

He completed transfer. Won't happen. Should have looked closer before completing paperwork.

 

[Rule3]

Again another performance center.Sent it back the next day probably want see gun again for months.Its been delivered there and sitting there for days but they said hasn't been received in there system.They said it's normal to have chips like that during the process of making the trigger.A brand new $1900.00 gun.

Strike two since 2024 Maybe stop buying new guns?

 

[GnarlsR2]

Geezz... I hate reading these type of posts!!

It's painfully disgusting to see a legendary firearm manufacturer, or any top rated manufacturer, sell a FIREARM in such poorly produced condition. The quality control and inspection process has to be top-notch for a firearm.
In all my years of buying and using a drip coffee maker, I've never bought one that didn't work right out of the box.
My Body Guard 2.0, "Handgun of the Year" took way too much work to get it reliable and trustworthy.

 

[bobsguns]

Geezz... I hate reading these type of posts!!

It's painfully disgusting to see a legendary firearm manufacturer, or any top rated manufacturer, sell a FIREARM in such poorly produced condition. The quality control and inspection process has to be top-notch for a firearm.

+1

I think there's several reasons for that. When Glock began to dominate the US handgun market, US gun mfgrs panicked. I'm thinking they wanted to sell MORE guns at a cheaper price, making the same profit over a larger inventory. They had to cut corners SOMEWHERE & QC is usually the first stop for that, sadly.

I think another sad thing to happen is the CEO's of Colt & Smith weren't "gun guys", just MBA-types from general industry. No difference between making a gun or a toaster, right?

Smith doesn't listen, but I contend that increasing the QC standards saves Smith more $$$. Keeps the gun(s) from coming back for warranty work, keeps the customer happy & buying more of that brand & spreads good feeling about THEIR quality. CZ & H&K get it, which why their guns have the lowest of warranty & QC issues.

For every Smith that gets test fired, I believe there should be at least two people inspecting each & every gun before it's approved. In fact, *I* would prefer three people. All should be "gun guys" rather than yanking someone off the floor & telling them to go be an inspector.

Were I owner of Smith, I would hit gun shows & hire all those old crusty curmudgeons that has a table full of old Smiths. I bet they could do better in 3-4 minutes per gun than the DEI hires could do in 10 minutes.

My .o2

 

[stansdds]

Also keep in mind that the craftsmen who made the finely fitted firearms of old are now retired and/or dead. I do not think there is a large pool of younger men and women who are looking to become craftsmen of firearms, but they can assemble MIM and CNC machined parts and send them down the line.

 

[chief38]

S&W just can't seem to get out of the free fall when it comes to deplorable QC! It has also occurred to me that the PC guns can actually be worse than their regular line! I guess the extra handling, extra work and custom features has created and opened up a new can of worms and adds more chances of them screwing it up. A company's QC always emanates from the top down and apparently the CEO and BOD's are either blind, deaf and dumb, have no idea what so ever on how to run a company, simply don't care or are just plain dumb. There is no other explanation as to why this has been getting worse and worse over the 2 decades the current company administration has been at the helm. What they have and have not done to bring this company down is deplorable! At this point it has finally occurred to me that S&W is in desperate need of a new owner, new leadership, a new BOD's and a super focused ideology on QC being job #1. Time for talking to them is over - they need to take action immediately or lose the company. It seems that a customer now receiving a great gun in proper condition and issue free, is now the exception - not the rule.

YES! I am upset that the nation's once greatest revolver manufacturing company producing the best of their kind, can no longer get it right - for about 20 years now!

 

[nll401]

All the comments about "DEI hires" are just a cheap shot. Quality is the responsibility of management and I'm willing to bet that the management of S&W is overwhelmingly old white guys.

The "old curmudgeons" mentioned? They'd be fired because they couldn't do the work fast enough. Not because they're slow but because doing it right takes time. And time costs money.

No doubt there can be a shortage of people that are skilled but that doesn't justify the poor quality described in this thread. It should never go out the door.

I suspect the management of S&W would like the excuse of DEI hires but I don't think that's where the problem lies.

 

[Lt.Donn]

+1

I think there's several reasons for that. When Glock began to dominate the US handgun market, US gun mfgrs panicked. I'm thinking they wanted to sell MORE guns at a cheaper price, making the same profit over a larger inventory. They had to cut corners SOMEWHERE & QC is usually the first stop for that, sadly.

I think another sad thing to happen is the CEO's of Colt & Smith weren't "gun guys", just MBA-types from general industry. No difference between making a gun or a toaster, right?

Smith doesn't listen, but I contend that increasing the QC standards saves Smith more $$$. Keeps the gun(s) from coming back for warranty work, keeps the customer happy & buying more of that brand & spreads good feeling about THEIR quality. CZ & H&K get it, which why their guns have the lowest of warranty & QC issues.

For every Smith that gets test fired, I believe there should be at least two people inspecting each & every gun before it's approved. In fact, *I* would prefer three people. All should be "gun guys" rather than yanking someone off the floor & telling them to go be an inspector.

Were I owner of Smith, I would hit gun shows & hire all those old crusty curmudgeons that has a table full of old Smiths. I bet they could do better in 3-4 minutes per gun than the DEI hires could do in 10 minutes.

My .o2

But... warranty returns don't seem to bother some gun makers...I guess you send a thousand out and if 250 come back you simply work that figure into your pricing structure...and to heck with your industry reputation

 

[chief38]

But... warranty returns don't seem to bother some gun makers...I guess you send a thousand out and if 250 come back you simply work that figure into your pricing structure...and to heck with your industry reputation

A 25% return rate for QC issues is deplorable and unacceptable IMO.

 

[unspellable]

It's one reason that so many folks are buying the new Colt snake guns instead of S&W revolvers! Very poor machining and QC!

I've had poor results with Colt QA. And on top of that current pythons and anacondas have the California trigger, couple hundred bucks to get that corrected.

 

[chief38]

I've had poor results with Colt QA. And on top of that current pythons and anacondas have the California trigger, couple hundred bucks to get that corrected.

Can't say any company is perfect but I own many Colts, probably as many as S&W's and never had a single issue with any new gun. After 50,000 45acp rounds through my 70 series GCNM 1911 I had to restake the front sight (that took 5 minutes in my workshop) and replace a barrel finger bushing that they no longer use. Now they use a solid bushing on Gold Cups. I had many in my tool box to choose from. That's it! My vintage Smiths keep going strong as well! Never had any major issues I could not fin right here.

I know Colt had a few minor issues with the new Python's but that was quickly resolved. I have not heard about a "California Trigger". I can only guess that is a harder to pull trigger spring or a trigger that is intentionally slower. That is the State of CA, not the Company. Again, no manufacture is perfect, but the lack of QC in Springfield (now TN) is disgracefully allowed. It almost seems to me that their employees can only drop in semi auto pistol parts but when it comes to revolvers and their parts fitment, they are lost, bewildered and lack experience and work ethics. Plenty of manufacturers in a rush to market might drop the ball temporarily, but NOT for 20+ years!