500 SW Mag Rifle Ballistics

[CoronaGold111]

Who can talk about the ballistics of 500 SW, 460 SW, and 45-70 in an apples to apples comparison from similar barrels? I'm thinking about a new TC Encore barrel with a JP Eliminator. Obviously this will be a "novelty" gun. Looking for huge power in a manageable platform. Interested in performance of barrel lengths from 16" to 26".

The information I've seen suggests a 500 can get an extra 500fps in a 22" vs a 10". Haven't seen data for all three calibers from similar length barrels. Suspect 24" barrels have significant gains across the board. Interested in all comments.

 

[ruggyh]

Can not speak to the 500 yet- just received my Big Horn Armory 22" 500 but have not had time to chrono any loads.

I can speak to the 460 as I have have 22" Ruger #1 and have chronoed a number of loads.

The Hornady 200 factory loads are 2900-2950 fps.

other load can be found here
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/356679-460-s-w-velocity-barrel-length.html

I should note that the 300 grain load test is a very lite load- it is possible to run those at 1800 fps out of 7.5" gun so a direct extrapolation would but the at around 2400 fps.

I don't have my notes available but believe 325 hard cast was around 2700 fps.

In summary the 460 shoots lighter weight bullets better than 45-70 but once you go past 360 grain the 45-70 starts to perform
better and it is clear winner at 405 weight.

Big Horn might be able to get you some data for their 500 I know they had some independent testing performed.

How manageable they will be out of your TC will be up to you. The rifle barrels lengths are available in all calibers.

There is nothing novelty about any of these cartridges in my experience, the all are very capable hunting cartridges with the right bullet.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The thought of big bore single shot rifles has fixated Americans for centuries. When the X-frame 500's first came out, H&R/NEF had a single shot break action on the market right away, The firat I saw of them was $189 +tax. The next was about 6 weeks later and over double the price. NEF was out of production shortly thereafter. The first rifle went to a guy picking up a 4" and a longer 8 or 10 inch. In later conversations he mentioned that the recoil on the NEF was fierce!!! I believe that was bad stock design and light weight in combination.

Watch out for the scope cutting your eyebrow.

Ivan

 

[CoronaGold111]

Thanks Ruggy. I was hoping you would chime in. I know you have a lot of time on these big magnums. You mentioned the 45-70 shoots better than the 460 with bullets heavier than 400gr. Are you speaking of accuracy or energy?

I did look at the Big Horn 500 data today. The energy and velocity just keep climbing. I am curious at what barrel length the velocity levels off or goes down.

Also, how fast should my twist rate be to stabilize 400 and 500 grain bullets?

 

[ruggyh]

Thanks Ruggy. I was hoping you would chime in. I know you have a lot of time on these big magnums. You mentioned the 45-70 shoots better than the 460 with bullets heavier than 400gr. Are you speaking of accuracy or energy?

I did look at the Big Horn 500 data today. The energy and velocity just keep climbing. I am curious at what barrel length the velocity levels off or goes down.

Also, how fast should my twist rate be to stabilize 400 and 500 grain bullets?

Referring to energy.

That said with modern powders and new bullet designs I shoot mostly 300 to 350 out of 45-70 anyway, no need to endure the recoil a 405 grain HC load delivers with no benifit over the lighter bullets. Even the 250 GMX will completely pass a big bear.

In regards to twist rate it is the bullet length that need be know to determine twist rate. For the 500 S&W and 500 grain 20 should be fine. Look at the Big Horn which is pretty slow and I am not having any issue at 100 yards with the 500. if you start shooting those over 620 grain you will need to look at something faster- those are getting pretty long.

Recoil is very similar from all these out of similar weight Ruger #1 or my lever guns between 460 and 45-70 with similar loads. all barrels are 22" to 26".

Be safe and good luck
Ruggy

 

[bluetopper]

I was getting 2100+fps out of my 500 Handi-Rifle with 350gr bullets.

 

[David.Hylton]

Look at the ballistics for the 50 Beowulf. Rumor had it the 500 S&W was a Beowulf with a rim.

 

[ruggyh]

Beowulf ballistics is similar to that of 45-70 not a 500 S&W.

The internal ballistics clearly different 65K vs 40K, 45K in some literature but still considerably different.

External ballistics also different- Beowulf cannot make the velocity achieved bullet weight and barrel length being equal- have yet to see a Beowulf round exceed 2700 ft.lbs.- many 500 S&W rated well over 3200 ft.lbs.

The Beowulf has a limited pressure range it will work in due to cycling and timing issues in the AR platform.

The rumor is just that, a rumor to trying to advance the Beowulf.
I heard somewhere that the Beuwolf idea was taken from the 500 JRH with a rebated rim.

Be safe and good luck
Ruggy

 

[Nemo288]

As far as the brass goes, the Beo looks to be a rebated rim 500 S&W but just (very) slightly longer.
Similar to how the 50AE is a blown out and rebated 44 Mag.