586 cylinder

[weaverman]

I've recently purchased a 586 M model, 4". Nice overall condition, doesn't look to have been shot much. Been having a helluva time with it; not getting nearly the accuracy I was expecting. In checking it over it seems the cylinder timing isn't that great. Looking at the hand, it seems to show little wear. However, the cogs on the extractor show some. Note the "flash" on the leading edges of the cogs (?) on the extractor face in the pic below.

However, I think I see the problem. There are no extractor pins in the cylinder! Without them, the action of the hand against the extractor face is poorly transmitted to the cylinder. There is quite a bit of radial clearance between the ejector rod and the cylinder, which I suspect is normal. My K gun has the pins.

I see that Numrich lists them as "Sold Out", and I can't seem to find them anywhere else. I imagine they are just small dowel pins. Anyone have a source on these? I've got pin gauges and can determine the diameter and length needed.

I haven't notice any jacket bits from the gun, and looking into the forcing cone I can't tell if the bullets having been striking the cone off-center. Will have to set up a way of getting a closer/better look.

Would sure like to start seeing some better hits with this piece. It seems to be all over a 6" target when shooting from a seated position at 15 yards. I can shoot my Model 10 snub better than this.

 

[weaverman]

Update

OK, so I pinned the holes in the cylinder and extractor. The holes in the cylinder gauge to .055" (#54 drill). The holes in the extractor face are .058", so an odd size there. The holes in the cylinder are chamfered, and it looks like a pin diameter of .056" is what's needed. Wonder if that's a common gunsmithing size for pinning?

As far as "reading" the forcing cone goes, I guess I'm not smart enough to tell what's going on.

 

[valkyriekl]

If the timing/indexing of your gun is off because of the missing extractor pins, then it could cause the bullets to deform as they strike the forcing cone, throwing off their center of balance and thus cause the inconsistent grouping you're seeing. See if you can't call S&W and have them send you any replacement pins; I've heard that using red Loctite works to hold the pins in place (the pins are usually press-fit into the cylinder).

 

[weaverman]

That's what I'm thinking (about the bullets and accuracy). I can't tell much looking at the cone.

So what happened to the originals? Are they known to fall out with use? And where would they go, as they're trapped in the gap so to speak?

 

[sourdough44]

You could maybe ask the 'tech line'(or ask for a tech) at Brownells. Once you describe your problem they may have a solution, with the pin. A competent smith would do too.

Yes, I looked at my 586 & I see the pin you are missing. It shouldn't be to hard to track one down & get it installed.

 

[What the]

Does the cylinder spit lead from around the forcing cone area? Does lead build up on the end of the barrel shank? I'm not an expert but the cogs don't look overly worn to me.

Repinning the ratchet might help the timing but the cylinder is splined to the rod and the bolt locks the cylinder so I'm not sure thats the whole problem. They do fall out on occasion and are a press fit I believe, so your close with the drill bits you found. Smith&Wesson didn't have the pins you needed?

How much experience do you have shooting revolvers? Were you shooting D/A or S/A ? You may be in need of lots of practice like most of us do to tighten up your groups. Handgun shooting is a skill that needs constant practice or it goes south.

Your revolver looks to be in nice shape and should shoot like a laser for you at that distance. If the gun doesn't fit your hand well you may be using too much or too little trigger finger and as a consequence your shots may wander a bit.

How does it shoot for other people? Did you use the same ammo? Was it reloads or factory? You will no doubt get some good advice from other members on here but hopefully I have given you some food for thought in the interim.

I hope you get your problem worked out!! Good Luck

 

[weaverman]

Hey What The! Thanks for chiming in.

My handgun experience is admittedly thin...probably 3500 - 4000 rounds or so over a 6-month period. Long guns for past 40 years off and on, more off. Hunted a lot when I was younger. So no doubt I can't "hit water falling from a boat" with these things, seriously. Probably the guns I've shot the best have been 1911s (Para, Colt, Kimber), but I love revolvers. I also shot a 6" Model 14 Masterpiece pretty well, evan at 25 yards; better than I shoot this gun at 15! I have 2 .38 snubs (a pre-Model 10 and a current 638). The 586 I've only had for a month. I shot it before I bought it, and hit well with it immediately...that night only it seems!! I also have a Hi-Power, and I've been working with that for about 3 months. Had to go auto/9mm to get shooting costs down. Need to be loading my own, and will soon.

I haven't noticed any shaving, and I don't think there has been any. I just started looking into this 586 closer (mechanically)when I found I couldn't shoot the gun very well. The gun was acting like it had a worn hand, but the hand looked good. Then I notice the holes in the cylinder and ejector, and I'm looking at the breakdown online at Numrich and see the pins. I look at my Model 10, and it has pins, so now I'm onto something. The ejector rod isn't splined, but rather rides on a single slot like a keyway, meant only to guide the ejector home to the pins (not to receive torque). The drive action is not very direct without the pins and doesn't rotate the cylinder far enough to lock up with a hand drag. It won't change my target results any, I know. I need to learn how to grip it and control the trigger. The grips don't really work for me either, but shouldn't cause the problems I'm having. I shoot both dual and single-action, but shooting the 586 single action mostly to try to get a decent target.

The guy I got it from, a gun seller at a local shop, said he could shoot it in a silver dollar sized ring at 15 yards, and we'll do some shooting together soon. I went to the gunshop today to see what the smith had to say about it. Got the S&W part number for the pins, so will call Smith and see if they can send me two. I don't think the pins were ever there...there's no evidence they were. The gun is "M" stamped.

I don't shoot much lead; maybe 10%. Mostly I shoot Winchester white box/red letter FMJ stuff for consistency. It's clean, and I haven't had any trouble with it. Also shoot some Federal...maybe 15%. In the 586 I've only shot about 100 magnums.