6,7 for sure - 12, 14 most of the time

[John Sobieski]

I've read and heard that revolvers are more reliable than autos - "6 for sure" being a common catch phrase.

In my limited experience, I've found that mostly the opposite has been true.

For example, at the range today the cylinder of my Model 620 wouldn't close after reloading. I'd fired about 70 rounds to that point and had to unload the cylinder to diagnose and clear the problem. Debris under the star caused the stoppage, and I needed to pull the toothbrush from my range bag to sweep under the extractor star. It looked relatively clean under the star, but the brushing cleared away whatever the problem was, and I was then able to reload and continue firing.

I learned to keep a toothbrush in my bag because most every double action S&W revolver I've owned has been tied up at some point by debris under the extractor star. In addition to the 620 above, I've had the same stoppages with a 25-5, 625, 629 and a Model 19. The 6" 25-5 was terribly prone to this stoppage with some type of Federal factory hollow point. I've forgotten the specific load, but it was a lead hollow point - maybe 225 grains. Despite holding the revolver vertically and smartly ejecting the brass, every cylinder full of these .45 Colt rounds left unburned powder flakes under the star, requiring a brushing sometimes after every 6 rounds.

Less frequently, the extractor rod unscrews rendering the gun difficult, at best, to open for reloading. I've experienced this most memorably with two Model 19s.

On the other hand, I've never experienced a stoppage of any type with Beretta M9/Model 92s, H&K P7s, SIG P220s or a S&W M&P 357.

Any gun can fail, and I've always experienced the "6 for sure" at the beginning of my range sessions, but I can count on some sort of stoppage every few hundred rounds with a double action revolver.

Is my experience with revolver stoppages unusual? Has anyone else found autos to be more reliable than revolvers?

 

[ACP230]

Most revolvers have been reliable for me, but I've seen some quit.
A guy was trying out a S&W snub at a NRA Hunter's Pistol Silhouette match years ago when it locked up with the hammer back and a live round in the chamber. He tried to unlock it but ended up wrapping a rag around the hammer and going to find a gunsmith.

I had a Ruger Blackhawk get so cold that the cylinder spun freely because the hand wouldn't rise up enough to catch it. Never happened before or since but it did that day. (It was also at a Hunter's Pistol Silhouette match.

My 640 abruptly quit working in double action while I was firing it on the back range at the Second Chance Bowling Pin Shoot. It would still fire in single action. I was using different ammo but never found out what the problem actually was.

I've had some ejetor rods back out too, but that's an easy fix. Just tighten them well before matches.

Most of the problems I've had with autos have been failures to feed due to bad ammo, or bad magazines. Most were fixed more quickly than the revolver problems.

I still use revolvers as my main carry guns, however. Mostly because I can hide them more easily.

 

[pogo2]

Contrary view...

In defense of the revolver, the "six for sure" usually refers to a defensive use of a carried revolver. Most carried revolvers have been cleaned before being loaded and holstered, so the problem of shooting debris clogging the star will not occur on the first 6 rounds fired. Additionally, the temperature of a revolver carried concealed under the clothing will be closer to body temperature than outside temperature on a cold day. So a problem stemming from a very cold revolver probably won't occur either, if it is drawn and fired.

A revolver problem that occurs at the range after many rounds have been fired is annoying, but won't be a life threatening problem.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

John I hate to bust that bubble that you are getting high on, but here are a few things to think about!!! Can you hold your auto upside down and shoot six rounds? Can you shoot it from inside your coat pocket? Can you press it into the chest of someone and shoot it? Can you shoot it as fast as a revolver? Don't you clean you carry revolvers after shooting it? If I drop my speed loader - it will still load, will your mag? Revolver has the auto beat anyway you look at it. Even when shooting the revolver guy will use way less rounds and hit his target more than a auto guy. All of the about is 100% true to be the fact Jack. Have fun

 

[Practical]

I have been shooting recreationally and in competition on and off again for 20 years. I hate to say it, but both my revolvers and pistols have failed me.

All due to being excessively dirty or needing some more lubrication.

Some parts failures have occurred but nothing that would not have been expected to wear out.

I am of the opinion that if revolvers were more reliable or being designed and maintained for hard use they would be used and approved for law enforcement and military use.

Since they are NOT first line Law Enforcrement firearms, I can't expect them to be designed and manufactured for ultra high reliability.

Revolvers are fast becoming recreational firearms. If they were not, the infamous LOCK whether Taurus, S&W or Ruger's form would be found.

The use cases suggested by the earlier posts about firing the gun upside down or from a pocket are useful, but NOT the only requirements needed in a defensive firearm. They are good points for a revolver, but they don't mean revolvers are the best firearms. I think revolvers likely have reache d their zenith. The designs and implementations are STILL catering to self-defense, and some LEO use. That will eventually go away.

 

[cjw3]

"Has anyone else found autos to be more reliable than revolvers?"

It depends.

My experience has been with a 686 and some .40 Glocks I have. As in earlier posts, I have had the 686 loosen an ejector rod or get unburned powder under the extractor or on the yoke to the point it was binding up and required a little work on the spot. However, that same dirty ammunition did not need to be of any given power level or bullet weight/design to achieve reliable functioning. So, keeping the revolver clean in a couple of the finely fitted areas seems to be the most important part of keeping it running.

With the Glocks, I've had very, very few malfunctions, and none that I could put off to powder residue, etc. They just don't stop for that. But, I have had a small number with handloads that didn't quite generate the recoil impulse needed for proper operation. I've also had one or two in which the case had been damaged at the mouth during seating and/or crimping, which prevented the slide from closing. When firing factory loads, I can't remember a malfunction. I have seen it happen to other people when they fire "limp wristed"; a firm grip fixes that. I've only used Glock magazines and have never seen a malfunction that could be attributed to them, even with some of them being scuffed up. With Glocks, it seems that the quality of the ammunition used is the most important factor in proper functioning.

Assuming guns of quality design and construction, I think we can say that both types are reliable if maintained reasonably well and fired with decent ammunition.

 

[Duke426]

I am of the opinion that if revolvers were more reliable or being designed and maintained for hard use they would be used and approved for law enforcement and military use.

Since they are NOT first line Law Enforcrement firearms, I can't expect them to be designed and manufactured for ultra high reliability.

With all due respect, the above statements are among the most ridiculous I have heard in my 35 years of shooting and handling firearms.

 

[m657]

I've shot Cowboy Action Matches for about 14 years, often twice or more times a month. While I have changed six-guns used from time to time, out of the (estimated) 200+++ matches wherein usual round count is at least 50 per each revolver (100+ per match), I have never suffered a failure to function due to the weapon breaking, let alone 'dirt under the extractor'. I have had one hand break, resulting in failure to advance the cylinder properly.

Mostly I've used Colts, clones, or Rooger Vaqueros. And I've shot my share of the Holy Black....which of course leads to some difficulties in the unwary/unprepared Apprentice to the Soot. One expects more fouling with Black Powder of any maker, than smokeless (a mere passing fad).

I've only rarely (maybe twice) in that same time frame, had one of the carbines fail in some way due to a metal part. Modern replicas of the 1866 & 1873 have been incredibly robust. I've never had a SxS shot gun fail, while the modern fantabulated 1897 HAS given me grief a couple times due to mechanical glitches.

Of course imperfect reloads have caused a number of glitches in the past, but these are not relevant to the question.

I've fire a LOT of rounds with other modern DA revolver courses, with no failures of any kind.

On the other hand, it's rare to make it though even ONE match with an auto ANYTHING that something (magazine/ammo/springs/phase of the moon) doesn't glitch out at least once. This is anywhere from 22 Bullseye to speed steel, bowling pins, and the IPSC etc stuff. Perhaps I've been lucky.

I don't really like autos, despite their alleged advantages, as they have demonstrated a far higher failure rate in *my* experience.

 

[OKFC05]

Is my experience with revolver stoppages unusual?

Somewhat.
These types of problems are more common with people who do not know or bother to properly maintain their revolvers in competition.

If debris under the star is a constant problem, that indicates the area is left sticky with lube and catches every piece of trash that lands there. An ejector rod that loosens needs locktite and proper torque, which is best done with the proper tool, not slip-joint pliers and a rag.
Sticky extraction and hard loading usually results from lube in the chambers and poor choice of bulets and/or powder. Failure to fire are common in revolvers that are "over-lightened" or used with the wrong ammo.
Most revolver competitors I shoot with clean more and lube far less than the average shooter, and have very few problems.

The most common failures I have seen in about 15 years of sanctioned competion involve competition 1911s and modified Glocks, partly because there are a lot of them in use. To be fair, as a match director/CRO I have seen failures of about every type you can imagine, including slides breaking in half and hitting the shooter in the face, with many different types of guns.

If you've never seen/had a gun fail, then you just haven't shot enough yet.

 

[Hook686]

Duke426 wrote:"



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Quote:
"Originally Posted by Practical
I am of the opinion that if revolvers were more reliable or being designed and maintained for hard use they would be used and approved for law enforcement and military use.

Since they are NOT first line Law Enforcrement firearms, I can't expect them to be designed and manufactured for ultra high reliability."


With all due respect, the above statements are among the most ridiculous I have heard in my 35 years of shooting and handling firearms. "



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I don't see any respect there at all. Practical stated that this was his opinion. Why hammer a guy for expressing his opinion ? Learn to be nice to each other, I think it will make for a more enjoyable forum.

 

[florida1098]

Sorry to say, Semi auto's are now #1 for me

I was a revolver guy in NYC, NYPD. In fact I was one of the last 1500 or so authorized to carry a model 10 S&W up to about 1998. I swore by them. I still love revolvers. However, as a SGT I would get the statistics from the range of about 10,000 cops a year, that was Manhattan North stats. There were literally pages of malfunctions on Officers guns that needed to be serviced and given loaners to suffice while the dept gunsmiths fixed the problems, in the interim. Understand, most cops never ever took care of their gun. Most, not all. But, a duty weapon should be reliable even if not cared for daily.On Most, the cylinder would'nt open from rust, dirt, snow, salt. Some the extractor rods simply extracted themselves in a divorce from the weapon. Other times, light hammer strikes, or main springs that needed adjustment. I'm not by any means saying the guys were right in not taking care of the weapon, just fact that they did'nt and many times the gun did'nt function. After the transition to almost all Glock, some S&W autos, the same Officers practiced the same bad care issues. From 2001 through 2004 I don't ever ever recall seeing a single Glock with a listed malfunction on my teletype. They were'nt cared for, they were dropped, put away dirty especially because after qualifying at the range, your day was over after you cleaned your gun. You can only imagine how fast some of those guns were cleaned. Anyway, in my experience, and I do still buy older revolvers every so often, but I have experienced Glocks to be by far the single most reliable pistol on earth. I'm not a gun expert. I don't know much about Sig's, Rugers, Taurus, Colts, DE's, etc etc. I believe and would trust my life to a Glock before any revolver. I'm not shooting from a pocket, I have shot Glocks upside down, they go bang, and not being a hunter, a 10mm Glock with 15 rounds should suffice any snake or violent lizard I come across here in FL. To each their own, this can be argued to gas goes down to 29 cents a gallon again, I just believe in an ugly black, blocky, plastic no internal lock Glock is choice 1 for reliability. My duty weapon is a Glock 23, off duty 27, fun Glock 20. To all be safe and lets hope the good people in this world never haver to find out for themselves which is more reliable.

 

[florida1098]

Hook, as a veteran ( I am not) I would get down on the floor and kiss your feet for the service you gave our great country with no embarassment. But come on 35 years and that was the worst you heard. Anyway, Thank-you for the service to our beautiful USA

 

[Ron H.]

Is my experience with revolver stoppages unusual? Has anyone else found autos to be more reliable than revolvers?

Sir, FWIW, I'd call your experience unusual. I've had revolver failures, but not to the extent that you describe. The guns really should behave better than that.

That said, I agree that "six for sure" is a myth. Revolvers can and do fail, as a quick look around the boards here will confirm.

My own experience with autos (mainly 1911s) has been very positive. I've actually had more "problem revolvers" than finicky autos, but I've also had more revolvers than autos. The proportion is probably similar, at least in my case.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[OKFC05]

Presumably, the revolvers all start from the factory with locktite and proper torque. Do the ejector rods loosen on all of them? Do you preventatively re-apply locktite and the proper torque before the rods loosen, or do you wait until they begin to come undone?

All handguns are supposed to come from the factory properly assembled, but I don't assume anything.
In fact, all my revolvers get a check of all components and fasteners, and the cylinders come off for a light chamfer and burr check.
If "the ejector rod keeps coming loose," the cure is simple with the right tools and technique.

Maybe the constant checking and cleaning done by many competitors seems like overkill, but after paying a $100 entry fee, gas money, and a motel, it really sucks to lose because the gun won't run. I've never heard a winner say "I never clean my Glock; it doesn't need it."

I must admit it was all I could do to keep a straight face at a match when an obnoxious shooter who had been lecturing all within hearing distance about the superiority of his Glock had a hard failure on my stage. (His aftermarket recoil assembly broke, and he had no spare)

The same maintenance techniques are effective on guns shot a few hundreds of times a year as well as on ones shot tens of thousands of times. But I also take a spare gun to matches, and last spring I had to go to it for the first time in years. If it is mechanical, it can fail.

 

[Don K.]

I only shoot handloads in my 44's. I get burned powder under the star ONLY with loads using 2400. So reliably in fact, that I wont use any 2400 loads for s.d./carry. This is in different individual .44 Smiths as well, not just one in particular.

 

[feralmerril]

I belive most problems can be traced to sloppy handloads. Also due to stupid handling like snapping the clyinder closed ala hollywood. Other than a few faulty rounds of ammo I cant recall haveing failures of my own, but been around a few.
Not a handgun failure, but rifle. I had a old hardnose retired army sgt from korea tell me of a experiance. He had a gook rise up to shoot him. His rifle misfired! After shooting him they checked his rifle and the fireing pin was broke.