625 mountain gun

[Penmon]

I have been haunted this week by a S&W 625 mountain gun I ran into at my local gun spa last week.
The price tag was 625.00 used, clean, fairly tight with no end shake in very good overall condition.
It was chambered for the 45LC.
Will this gun fire 45ACP with 1/2 moon clips or without them or at all ?
Is this a decent price?
Penmon AKA Jim

 

[Smee78]

The gun as it sits will not fire 45acp, but if you have the cylinder mach for moon clips it will shoot both 45C & 45acp (only with moon clips) Mark does a great job and did my 625MG Pinnacle-Guns.com: Pinnacle High Performance Custom Gunsmithing

As for the price, is it lock or pre lock?

 

[Penmon]

lock, I think, need to look again.
Penmon

 

[Penmon]

Very interesting, for $85.00 plus S&H I can shoot 45 ACP, 45 LC and 454 Casull.
Thanks for the link
Penmon

 

[Smee78]

No!!! That is only if your gun is already 454, it does not change inside your cylinder, it only machines the lip so a moon clip can fit. The 45C will not use the clip, only the 45acp.From the sight (.45 LC cylinders can be cut to shoot both ACP and LC)

 

[gunsabazin]

What would a 625-6 mountain gun in .45ACP be worth? I have an opportunity to buy one that is in very nice condition, with original box and plenty of moonclips.

 

[Dpris]

Pen,
No Smith N-Frame was built to handle the .454.
Ever.
Denis

 

[nawilson]

What would a 625-6 mountain gun in .45ACP be worth? I have an opportunity to buy one that is in very nice condition, with original box and plenty of moonclips.

I am surprised no one has weighed in on this, and I really don't know because I haven't seen one. They are rare.

As to the cost of a 45 Colt MG, I think $625 is pretty good. I paid $750 for mine new. I really like mine.

 

[jspick]

Unless I am missing something here. If you machine the cylinder to take 45acp with clips then you HAVE to USE moon clips for the 45 Colt also otherwise the rim will move foreward and you won't get any firing pin strikes on the primers. Am I correct??

John

 

[JeffR]

The process of machining a 45 Colt cylinder to take 45 ACP in moonclips leaves a small ledge around the outside edge of the cylinder.

45 ACP must use moonclips, you cannot use 45 AR but 45 Colt is unaffected - you can load and shoot the Colt rounds with or without the clip.

 

[jspick]

OK thanks, I just assumed that the whole back of the cylinder was machined. I always learn something new here.

Of course when you don't know much it is easy to learn something new! ha ha

John

 

[Penmon]

625Mountain gun 45LC & 45ACP

So I got myself a 626 mountain gun in 45LC and thanks to the members here on the forum I was learned I could have the back face of the cylinder shaved so it would also fire 45ACP with moon clips.
It was recommended that I contact Mark Hartshorne at Pinnacle Performance and after several weeks of trying, with no reply. I notice that Pinnacle site had a link to TK Custom for the moon clips.
I checked with Tom Killoffer at TK customs and not only does he offer the moon clips for sale at 10 for $59.95 he also offers the dual caliber conversion work for the 625 including shipping for $100.00.
Pinnacle High performance web price was $87.00 but he won't answer the phone or respond to emails, nothing makes a fellow lose faith quicker. The $13.00 difference is nothing in the greater scheme, as it seems Tom Killoffer from TK Custom has been doing these conversions for the last 15 years.

Tom Killoffer from TK custom seems like a real gentleman and he stated he limits his work to moon clips and cylinder machining. I feel pretty good about doing business with him, his credentials are great, plus he answered the phone and spent some time explaining his work and how he performs it.

My only question is would you also have him perform the same work, that is cutting the cylinder so it will also fire 45ACP with moon clips as well as it's intended round the 45LC on an S&W, 25-3, 125th anniversary.

Penmon AKA Jim

 

[jspick]

I fail to see how you can shoot a 45 colt in a cylinder once you cut it back to allow moon clipped 45 acps. The 45 colt head spaces on the rim and when you cut the cylinder down you are making a condition that the firing pin will not reach the 45 colt primer.

In my opinion you are ruining a perfectly good gun. But that is MY opinion. How are you going to get 45 colt ammo to work???

John

 

[JeffR]

The process does not machine off the entire rear face of the cylinder. A small lip/ledge is left around the rim to headspace the colt round.

45 ACP in a moonclip fits entirely inside this rim.

 

[jspick]

Interesting. I don't think I would do it to my gun. But to each his own.

Good luck to you Penmon. I hope it works out good for you.

John

 

[john traveler]

Another thing to consider is that the conversion from .45 Colt to .45 ACP with moonclips results in mediocre accuracy. I've had shooting access to several such conversions and after extensive Ransom rest testing with match-quality ammo, group sizes more than doubled between .45 Colt and .45 ACP.

 

[Sprefix]

If I find a 625-6 .45 Colt in good or better shape for $6naQ, I'm jumping on it with both feet!!!

 

[Stainz]

My first-ever S&W was my 625-7 MG (9/02) in .45 Colt. I tried to wear it out - even to starting reloading just for the .45 Colt. That blossomed into another hobby. Eventually, I traded for a LN 625-6 MG in .45 Colt - to keep from wearing out my sentimental favorite first S&W. My second S&W, however, was a 4" 625-8 .45 in ACP - later in 9/02 - as I couldn't then find a 625MG in .45 ACP. I still haven't found one! That original 4" 625-8 eventually was replaced by a 625-8 JM revolver - still looking for that elusive 625MG in .45 ACP. I would never consider butchering a .45 Colt cylinder so it could load .45 ACPs - but that's me. I like shooting .45 Auto Rims in my 625JM - that wouldn't be possible in a 'modified' .45 Colt cylinder 25/625.

S&W does make a .45 Colt-capable cylinder that chambers .45 ACPs in moonclips - look at the Governor to see what the vestigal rim ring of full OAL looks like. That rim permits rimmed cartridges, like the .45 Colt & Schofield - as well as 2.5" .410 shotgun shells - but excludes loading the thick-rimmed .45 Auto Rim cases. I still have my pair of 625MGs in .45 Colt and wouldn't consider modifying either - but that's me.

BTW, if you do go through with the moonclip conversion - or get a .45 ACP chambered S&W, including the Governor, Ranch Products makes the blued steel moonclips shipped with new S&Ws - and they were $35/100 shipped directly from them.

Stainz

 

[Sportsterguy]

Another thing to consider is that the conversion from .45 Colt to .45 ACP with moonclips results in mediocre accuracy. I've had shooting access to several such conversions and after extensive Ransom rest testing with match-quality ammo, group sizes more than doubled between .45 Colt and .45 ACP.

My buddy suffered the same poor accuracy results with his .45 ACP MG with the Colt round. Cylinder & Slide did the machining and it was over $100.00. It was very accurate with the .45 ACP's and very comfortable to shoot. I'd leave it as is if it were my revolver.

I had a pre IL 657 MG. Loved it as I'm a die hard .41 mag fan. It carried very well in a cross draw holster but was snappier from the light weight. No bigggie for hunting and hiking but not alot of fun at the range with full powered loads. Nothing 7.0 grains of Unique and a LSWC couldn't take care of. In a moment of stupidity I let it go and have regretted it ever since.

 

[Penmon]

Butchering a 625-9

Before I begin the process of "butchering" my 625-9 I wanted to ask for a little more information.

I purchased this pistol with the sole goal of converting it to fire 45 ACP using full moon clips and yet still have the ability to fire 45LC if I chose to.

My logic is this 1
1) While I have the ability to reload, I do not like to and find it tedious and time consuming .To that end 45LC is too expensive for me to shoot regularly if not reloaded, 45ACP is a far more affordable round in my book.
2) I find the recoil of the 45LC to be uncomfortable during long range outings.
3)I found this write up on the web and it highly impressed me.
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK5/miculek5.html

This is the process I plan to use when I butcher my gun.
Welcome to TK Custom.com & Moonclips.com

I do not see the difference in changing the grips, installing new sights, polishing stainless steel and converting a pistol to fire two different rounds, so no I do not feel I am butchering my pistol.
I could however see your point if I was reducing the barrel length or converting a square butt to a round butt, I do realize this is a permanent modification to the gun but I see it as an improvement not butchering.

Now for my question, I can not understand how this conversion would affect the pistol accuracy as state by two members earlier in this thread. Unless the 45LC is just more accurate due to the heavier bullet weights? or could it have something to do with the longer jump between cylinder and barrel throat but I would think the barrels rifling would negate this? The way the conversion is done (please see above video clip) should not cause the 45ACP rounds to be inaccurate and "opening the group up to twice it's size from a random rest"as stated by a previous member.
What could cause this to happen? Enquiring minds want to know.

Thank you
Penmon AKA The Butchering Bubba