625JM - use without moonclips & vs 627

B

bsms

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
103
Reaction score
9
I've been looking at buying an N-frame...haven't owned one in nearly 30 years, since I sold a Model 28. Most of my shooting is done plinking in the desert, & I don't want to carry a bunch of moon clips.

How awkward is a 625 for use without moon clips? I know it CAN be done, but it it a pain in the rear?

Also - any thoughts on how it compares with the 627 Pro? I admit the use of 45 acp seems like a better round than the 357 for use against 2-legged types, but the 357 is no slouch (I've got a Model 60LS & 686+) and I could carry the same ammo while practicing that I use in them.

Any comments would be appreciated - I'll probably decide within the next couple of days...
 
Register to hide this ad
How awkward is a 625 for use without moon clips? I know it CAN be done, but it it a pain in the rear?
Click to expand...

Some work, some don't due to the chamber being too deep. The guns headspace off the clip holding the rimless cartridges.
Then if it does fire, you can't use the ejector and have to push out each empty with a pencil or whatever.........oh, heck, who are we kidding, routinely using a 625 without the clips is just pointlessly dumb PIA.....
 
If you dont want to use moonclips in the 625, just use 45 auto rim instead of 45ACP its pretty much a regular 45 auto with a rim to headspace off of and it will eject fine.
 
^^ I don't reload and the 45 Auto Rim costs more than twice as much as 45 ACP...
 
If you can find some of the older style 3 bullet moon clips they will cary easily in a pocket or pouch. 625 is something special and addicting. Bob
 
If you don't reload then I would get a 627. 357 mag and 45 acp run about the same price. I would get the 627pc though instead of the pro so you have the option of using moon clips though you don't need to.
 
My 625 fires just fine without the moonclips, but I have to poke the empties out with a dowel rod. I just recently got some of the RIMZ (plastic) moon clips. They work really well, easy to load and unload without tools.

They hold the rounds securely - I tried dropping a loaded on clip on the floor several times, the rounds didn't pop out.

For range use, the RIMZ clips are much more convenient than the steel clips.
 
I have a new 625 JM that was test fired August 10, 2011. When I recieved it the cylinder was so totally free of any trace of machining marks that I suspect that S&W may now be using the ECM process to machine the chambers in the cylinder. I've also installed a Cylinder & Slide firing pin that features an extended travel capability and have tuned the trigger pull to 8 lbs. in double action, something I consider critical when using the C&S firing pin. Because I believe that using this particular firing pin with the mainspring at full power could lead to a pierced primer with the firing pin stuck in that primer.

I've shot it quite a bit without moon clips and the fired casings will fall out with a brisk shake. BTW, the reason I've shot it without clips started as a matter of curiosity and I ran 50 rounds of Speer Lawman through it on it's first outing without clips. Since then it gets shot for about 50 rounds without clips simply because I only have 2 of the American Eagle 45ACP boxes at this point, which are perfectly size to carry 8 clips. As soon as my local ranges gets in more of that American Eagle I'll probably start taking 24 clips to the range, however right now I just run a box downrange without the clips and it's not a problem. Any one that does hang up because I was a bit lazy with that shake can be snagged out with a fingernail with very little effort. Based on my sample, I don't think there is any problem at all shooting without clips, however I did do a bit of tuning and installed a firing pin with a lot more travel than the factory firing pin. It also features a cylinder that was so well machined it has the appearance of a computer generated CAD model.

BTW, I took the time to measure the headspacing with and without clips using Federal brass and the difference is 0.018 inch. IMO that might be problematic in regards to misfires with the factory firing pin, however the first thing I do to a new gun is tune it up and I've had good results with the C&S firing pins.

As for the decision between the 625 and 627, I don't reload and cost of ammunition was a factor in my choice. Currently 45 ACP is 18.97 at Walmart for the Federal Champion and American Eagle 157 gn. SJSP is 29.95 at the one local range that stocks it. I also wanted a 6 shooter for use in IDPA. Finally, it regards to recoil, I find the 625 to be "just right" and expect that the 627 would have a bit more snap when shooting 357 Magnums, about 50% more snap. Sum it up and the 625 was a better choice for me, it's cheaper to shoot and won't have the tendancy to build a flinch like the 627 would if shot with 357 Magnums.
 
You need to start buying your ammo on line scooter. I buy the bulk pack 38 special from georgia arms and it runs like $210 for 1k rounds. Great range/blasting ammo. All most half the price of 45 acp, then you can buy 357 mag from them around $20 per 50.
 
For what it's worth, ammo compatibility is one reason I bought a moonclipped 8X357. It runs fine with or without moonclips. And the right grips can make a big difference in recoil - the only difficult part is finding which grips work for each of us.

Both guns are good and I wish I could justify more.
 
I suggest half-moon clips, full-moon clips, no clips and some 45AR tossed in. I think you will find a happy medium in there somewhere.

I do suggest loading 45AR. Buying it is just dumb. Loading it is super cheap.

Regards,
Greyson
 
I currently own a 625 JM and a 627 Pro. Both are very good weapons. The 627 PC and the 627 Pro both have the ability to use moonclips, not just the PC. As was stated in an earlier post the 625 is very easy to load and unload using the RIMZ polymer clips. The one thing I would suggest is find a dealer with both and see which one feels better in your hands. Also start reloading. I recently started reloading, and I save a ton of money. Good luck, I don't think you could go wrong.
 
I've seen a lot of references to a 'demooning tool'. Would it work to simply toss a few moonclips in my pocket or ammo pouch and load/unload them as I go - fingers only?

With N frame S&Ws, I suspect this is a good summary: "I don't think you could go wrong."
 
If you are going to buy a 45acp revolver, why would you not want to use moonclips, just buy moonclip tool and its east mooning and demooning and saves time at the range just being able to pop a moon clip in instead of loading 6 rounds.
Eric
 
RIMZ clips take all of the headaches out of using moonclips. You can easily load and unload them by hand, they're secure, and there's no discernible difference in accuracy between using them vs. steel clips. I use RIMZ clips exclusively with my JM. They're not just range clips as far as I'm concerned, I'd feel confident with them in any situation.

My advice: get a JM, get some RIMZ clips, and enjoy!
 
.45 ACP, .45GAP, and .45 Auto Rim vs. .38 Special, .38 Special +P, .38 Special +P+, or .357 Magnum. I had a Brazilian contract 1917, and disliked the moonclips enough to sell it to someone who thought he had to have it. I have nothing against the gun because it got a lot of looks at the range and was fun to shoot, but if I'm going to shoot .45 Auto I want a 1911 to run them through. I guess if you wanted ammo interchangability among most of the firearms you own choosing a 9mm, .40S&W, or .45Auto revolver makes sense. But I like expanding my horizons.
 
Shooting4life said:
You need to start buying your ammo on line scooter. I buy the bulk pack 38 special from georgia arms and it runs like $210 for 1k rounds. Great range/blasting ammo. All most half the price of 45 acp, then you can buy 357 mag from them around $20 per 50.
Click to expand...

why not reload?you get what you want,when you want..38special,range wadcutters about a hundread bucks per thousand...if you cast you can cut that figure WAY down....
 
bsms said:
I've been looking at buying an N-frame...haven't owned one in nearly 30 years, since I sold a Model 28. Most of my shooting is done plinking in the desert, & I don't want to carry a bunch of moon clips.

How awkward is a 625 for use without moon clips? I know it CAN be done, but it it a pain in the rear?

Also - any thoughts on how it compares with the 627 Pro? I admit the use of 45 acp seems like a better round than the 357 for use against 2-legged types, but the 357 is no slouch (I've got a Model 60LS & 686+) and I could carry the same ammo while practicing that I use in them.

Any comments would be appreciated - I'll probably decide within the next couple of days...
Click to expand...

Alot of this I guess is a matter of preferance. I think .357 can not be beat for two legged critters. I have a 627 pro 4" and I love the gun. A bit large for concelled carry; however, for hiking ect, eight rounds of .357 is just a handfull of mean. I also have a 686+, and is another fine revolver. Lighter forsure, easier to carry than an N frame IMO. I still carry the 627 alot though, and the 686 spends alot of safe time these days. I do think the .357 is a better self defense round (again in my opinion), and when I carry .45ACP I prefer a 1911....just me...rimless in a revolver is like rimed in an auto, just asking for problems. 5 star makes good speed loaders so you are not stuck with moon clips.
 
In your shoes I would grab the 627 and never look back, but then like someone else said, I prefer my .45's to be fired from a 1911.
 
No - no I say! .45 ACPs have been launched from S&W revolvers since 1917! It's natural... and Ranch Products, makers of the moonclips included with your 625, did sell them direct for $35/100 delivered. 105 'clips, separated by hardboard, loads in five layers of 21 in a metal 5.56mm ammo can - Zombie-ready!

IMG_0594.jpg


I bought a 4" 625-8 9/02 - before I reloaded. It's ammo costs were always similar to .38 - .357M then. Today - a trip to WallyWorld can land you 250 packs of UMC 230gr ball ammo - in brass - for $86-$90. That's $18/50 at most - for a clean shooting 'big bore'. Get a Brownell's nutdriver style de-mooner - all you need - and will hold the six stripped empties while you find a ziploc bag for them (Save your brass!). Order a Classic-DX style spring held, ie, not pinned, front HiViz sight - .250" in height - you'll love it. If not, 30 seconds later - you are back to the gold beaded Patridge sight. Save the HiViz - it'll fit the 627 Pro, too!

I added the 627 Pro 5/08 - keeper! It got it's own HiViz - and some nice Ahrends Retro Targets:

IMG_3511.jpg


Moonclips are great - if you reload, get Starline brass - it loads easily by hand in R.P. 'clips. Remingtons aren't too bad, either. You can get a x8 speedloader from 5 Star Firearms - great product - as are their loading plates - all machined Al - and they'll load any .38/.357M case, too. Here my 627 Pro is as it is equipped today:

IMG_4599.jpg


Yeah, the 625JM was contageous... my 627 Pro got it's own HiViz and a JM grip, too - really a faster grab. It had a sibling it insisted on my giving a home to - evil - a 2 5/8" PC627 UDR. Be prepared. You really cannot go wrong on your first choice... just leave room in the safe... there will be more...

Stainz

PS I needed more room - I bought a 'Governor' last June - just to shoot up my 'clipped .45 ACPs!
 
I just bought a non JM 625. It is a great weapon but after killing my fingers trying to load the moonclips I got the mooncliptool.com. What a great device. I now love moon clips! I got the necessary dies to reload and I'm ready to go. The first ammo I bought was Indepenence brand 45acp. The local MC Sports has it for $20 a box. I noticed it uses small primers. I found the this ammo isn't crimped very tight because after shooting three rounds the unfired bullets in the cylinder were coming out of the brass! I now run this ammo through the crimper before I shoot it. It did shoot well but doesn't have as much punch as the Remington I also shot. Can't wait to reload the brass.
 
I would say, if you do not want to use moon clips then buy a 44 Mag.

One of the advantages of moon clips is how fast they reload.

However, another advantage of the moon clips is HOW FAST AND EASY YOU CAN PICK UP YOUR FIRED BRASS.

I never see this mentioned.

It is fairly cheap, and easy to have @600 to 1200 rounds already loaded in full moon clips before you get to the range.

Do a bunch of shooting, your fired brass is very easy to pick up, and then you can de moon, reload the brass and re moon, before your next range session.

Even IF, the only shooting you do is at the range, a 45 ACP revolver with full moon clips, is if not the best choice, it is one of the best choices.

OK I know I have said this before, but IF you do not need the "thump" of FULL power 44 Mag loads, then a S&W in 45 ACP is the Best full sized revolver a person can have.... IMHO of course.
 
I will give another vote for rimz clips.I have been using 45acp revolvers for 25 yrs.And the rimz clips have been the best thing since sliced bread for range work.But if you want A 45acp revolver you don't need moon clips for try a ruger new model vaquero.I have one with 3 3/4 in barrel with birdshead grip that is a lot of fun at the range.
 
bsms said:
I've been looking at buying an N-frame...haven't owned one in nearly 30 years, since I sold a Model 28. Most of my shooting is done plinking in the desert, & I don't want to carry a bunch of moon clips.

How awkward is a 625 for use without moon clips? I know it CAN be done, but it it a pain in the rear?

Also - any thoughts on how it compares with the 627 Pro? I admit the use of 45 acp seems like a better round than the 357 for use against 2-legged types, but the 357 is no slouch (I've got a Model 60LS & 686+) and I could carry the same ammo while practicing that I use in them.

Any comments would be appreciated - I'll probably decide within the next couple of days...
Click to expand...

I have a nice 625-2 that I have routinely used with common 230 gr. .45 ACP ammunition. I have been very pleased with how it has performed. Results in firing, etc. have been uniformly excellent, even when using the steel cased Tula ammunition. Many times the empties will fall out when the muzzle is elevated and the ejector rod is given a tap. The empty cases that do not fall out are easily removed with a flick of a fingernail.

Accuracy with this revolver has been excellent in every respect. Out of the box my 625 shot better than most any standard 1911 pistol I've handled. With appropriate loads it shoots equal to the few well prepared 1911's I have owned/used. The last time I took this revolver out I shot it at 40 yds. using a old steel plate off the top of a railroad tie. I hit the plate 48 out of 50 shots firing off-hand. This was firing SA which is what I prefer to do when shooting at extended ranges. Sincerely. brucev.
 
Dogmann said:
Is there any S&W revolver that shoots 45acp without moon clips?
Click to expand...

Dog, per all I have gathered and read, with any of the S&W 45 acp's, it's a **** shoot. I can with my newer 625 PC, but I can find you a metric ton of posts about folks who cannot. In my Aug. 2008 Handloader magazine on the 45AR, Brian Pearce, the author, noted conversations with S&W where the company made the decision to move away from this ability, by design.

If you can inspect a potential purchase, you could check the headspace between the back of a moon clipped reload and individual chambers with loose ammo/cases to perhaps make an educated guess. Then there is the issue of the oal of the brass. If it were me, I would bring a clip of sized cases, a handful of sized unclipped cases, a few auto rim cases and your feeler guages. I would think any LGS would allow this, as this would not be ammo.

Craig
 
I have been running 5000-7500 rounds through my two 625's (a 5" 625-6 Model of 1989 and a 4" 625-8 JM Special) per year for the past several years. I cast my own bullets and reload. I mostly use Starline .45 Auto Rim but also shoot hundreds of .45 ACP with the new RIMZ clips (the Polymer/Carbon fiber type are much more secure that the original all Polymer type.

I suggest calling and have your model number on hand - different .45 ACP Smiths take different moonclips and it can get a bit confusing:

Ez Moon Clips

The Rimz (Ez Moonclips) require NO tools and work perfectly. I also have steel full moon clips and TOOLS but much prefer the Rimz clips.

The late model 25's and 625's are some of the finest Smith revolvers, EVER! My normal range load is the H&G#68 200 gr SWC (Mihec correct copy) ahead of 4.0 grs of Bullseye or equivalent and my heavy load for field use is a 250 gr Keith (NOE correct version of the Lyman 454424) ahead of 7.0 grs of Unique for a chronographed velocity of 900+ fps. That is a dandy field load (equals the original black powder .45 Colt with a MUCH better shaped bullet for considerably better terminal effect).

This is a very versatile combination (as I've stated on this forum MANY times).

FWIW
Dale53
 
Looking at the OPs requirements, I believe that if you want an N-Frame, you may be better suited with a Model 627. No moon clips are needed and you can shoot both .357s and .38 Specials as you prefer.

As noted above, current 625 cylinder charge holes are cut deeper than on the original Model 25s and their predecessors. Due to this fact a modern 625 may or may not reliably ignite .45 ACP rounds without the support of a moon clip.

If you did reload, then the .45 AR round as others have suggested would be a viable option. Otherwise, if you are set on the 625/.45 ACP your best option is to use the RIMZ moon clips. As it sounds like you are packing into the desert to shoot, the unloaded clips don't take up much room and can be easily loaded/unloaded without tools.

If you intend to carry the revolver, the steel clips take rough handling better. A couple of loaded steel clips in a pocket or belt pouch as reloads and you are good to go!

FYI, I have two 625-8s, a JM and a PC. I reload and as such shoot both .45 ACP and .45 ARs through them. I purchased a moon clip tool from mooncliptool.com that makes loading and unloading the steel clips a breeze. When shooting in the winter, having a box full of loaded clips makes my range visits that much more pleasant. Also as much as I love my 1911s, those moon clips mean I don't have to dig through the snow banks to find my spent brass...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

PALADIN85020
The ultimate .45 ACP revolver?
2
Replies
41
Views
11K
OK Hog Shooter
OK Hog Shooter
H
5" 627 length vs 686
Replies
17
Views
13K
gr7070
gr7070
G
Incipient Case Separation or Ejector Scribe Marks
Replies
15
Views
4K
WR Moore
W
Rivers2k
686 SSR or 686plus?
2
Replies
32
Views
19K
Rivers2k
Rivers2k
C
N-Frame database
Replies
0
Views
4K
Classic Hunter
C

Latest posts

Back
Top