686 land and grooves

shoot back

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I recently bought another 686 with 4" bbl. Gun always shot far left. Shooting from a rest at 25 yrds 3" groups is best it will do with my reloads. 125 grn RNFP cast 50/50 lead+ww. 4.2 grn BE. Shot over ten thousand of the same loads through my other 686 and 586 with much tighter groups. Now to the point,the more i shoot this gun and clean it i notice the lands and grooves are wearing thin. Not deep with sharp edges like my other two guns with thousands of rounds through each one. Looking down the barrel the rifling looks more like the polygonal rifling in my desert eagle. Anybody else ever hear of this happening?
 
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Not EDM (Electro Discharge Machining), but ECM (Electro Chemical Machining). Not sure at what point S&W switched from broach cut on their production guns, but the appearance you describe is how I have often heard ECM rifling described.

I wouldn't blame the rifling for the difference in accuracy, but more likely the hardness of the projectile. Try some commercial cast bullets of known Brinell hardness and see if one particular hardness works better in that gun.

ECM rifling actually gives smoother more uniform results than broach cut, but you do not have the sharp edges to "grab" the bullet when it obturates.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
 
Electro Chemical Machining (ECM).


This method is also a very precise method, but it is much more suitable for mass production. Like the EDM process, the ECM process can also be used on hard materials that cannot be machined by other more mechanical processes. Unlike the EDM process, no sparks are generated between the cathode and anode. The best way to understand ECM is to think of it as reverse-electroplating (i.e.) instead of adding material, we remove it.


Since 1993, Smith & Wesson has been using ECM to manufacture most of their revolver barrels. They use machines manufactured by Surftran to do their work. The barrels are hardened and annealed before the rifling process. The hardened barrels are then placed in the ECM machine and held stationary. The electrode is a plastic cylinder with metal strips circling around the exterior. The metal strips are a reverse image of the desired rifling and are inset into the plastic cylinder. This way, only the plastic part of the cylinder touches the barrel and not the metal strips. The electrode is placed inside the barrel and the whole is immersed into an electrolytic solution of sodium nitrate which is constantly circulating under pressure. The electrode is moved down the barrel and rotated at the desired rate of rifling twist. As current flows from the cathode (the electrode) to the anode (the barrel), the material is removed from the anode to duplicate the grooves in the shape of the electrode. Because the metal parts of the electrode never actually touch the barrel (only the plastic core does) and because the flowing electrolyte removes any material from the barrel before it has a chance to accumulate on the metal strips, the electrode usually lasts a very long time and needs no cleaning or maintenance. In fact, the electrode is replaced only when the plastic core which contacts the barrel to provide proper centering and spacing of the metal strips, wears out.


The advantages of this are that the process is extremely precise and can be used to machine hard materials like hard steel alloys, titanium alloys etc. Similar to the EDM process, it also produces no heat or stress on the barrel during the rifling process and also produces an excellent finish. Unlike the EDM process though, it is much faster to machine parts using this technique. A typical rifling job for a 357 magnum revolver barrel can be done in about one minute using this process, making it ideal for mass production. The tool can also be repeatedly used as there is very little tool wear.


The disadvantages are that these machines have high tooling cost and also use large amounts of electricity.
 
shoot back,

Totally aside from the machining method your bullet alloy is very soft and not really compatible with ECM, Polygonal rifling (regardless of how machined!) or Marlin's "Micro-groove" rifling. Try an alloy of wheel weight plus 2% Tin instead and see if your accuracy results improve. The only reason to use such a soft alloy as yours is if you are casting hollow-point or hollow-base bullets and need it for expansion!
 
Thanks for all the input. I was hoping that my barrel wasn,t being shot out. Will try different hardness in my boolits to see if i can make this one a shooter like my others. Put 200 hundred rounds through it this weekend.
 
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