686 timing

[dgansen]

Just picked up my first wheel gun, a 686-4. I'm familiar with firearms, have had smith revolvers apart to clean, and swapped springs, etc... However, the only firearm I've ever hand-fit parts to are 1911's.

Therefore, this being my first revolver (and unfortunately needing the most work out of any revolver I've handled), hopefully someone can give their expert opinion here.

This 686 is out of time, and I don't know for sure, but lock up seems a little loose.

From what info I could find, either replacing the ejector assembly and/or the "hand" can fix the timing, and a new cylinder stop can solve the lock-up problem. These parts are about $60 total on numrich. S&W quoted $75-150 to fix timing and lock-up, plus shipping.

Being that I've never owned a revolver or tried repairs this intensive on one, should I attempt the repairs myself, or let the folks at S&W figure it out? I'm a college kid, money is tight, and it'd be nice to save the money, but if I screw up it'll only be even more expensive when it goes back to S&W anyways to fix my mistakes.

What are your guys thoughts? Thanks!

Edit to add: Just now saw the "gunsmithing" section, I'm not exactly starting off on the right foot here by posting in the wrong section; my apologies, hopefully mods will be along shortly to move the thread

 

[OKFC05]

The first thing you need:
"The S&W Revolver: A Shop Manual" Book by Jerry Kuhnhausen

The S&W Revolver: A Shop Manual Book by Jerry Kuhnhausen

 

[158Grain]

I would suggest picking up Jerry Kuhnhausen's The S&W Revolver: A Shop Manual. It is very detailed and can walk you through almost any repair. It also has very good detailed pictures

 

[158Grain]

You beat me to it!

 

[kaaskop49]

Send it back to S&W and have it repaired correctly. Money is tight for all of us, but if I'm buying guns, I ought to be willing to pay to have them fixed.

 

[Hillbilly77]

Check the alignment pins under the ejector star.
They should be tight in the cylinder and fit snot in the holes on the star.

My 586 needed them replaced. They were worn, and one of them kept walking out.

My 586 also needed a new cylinder stop and a hand to correct sloppy action / timing.

 

[M3Stuart]

Ask yourself; what kind of guy am I? Are you the kind that likes to take things apart and figure out how they work? Or do you just like to have stuff work?

Former = buy book, decent screwdriver set and start ordering parts. Latter = send it back to S&W.

 

[dgansen]

Regardless, I'll definitely buy the book; sounds like it's a staple for anyone who owns a S&W revolver

I'm really looking for an opinion on whether or not you guys think I'll be capable to do it myself.

like I said, I've had them apart, swapped springs, cleaned them... just never started hand fitting parts for them. I guess I'll buy the book, see what's involved in the process, and go from there!

I'll definitely check the alignment pins, too; after all, it can't hurt! Thanks for all the responses, keep it coming with any more suggestions or info, I'm here to learn!

 

[rwsmith]

If it were.......

If it were just a matter of changing out parts, I MIGHT attempt to do it myself. But I think (I don't know) that hands can require some fitting. My money is tight too, but I'd be inclined to send it to S&W and have a 99% chance of it being done right the first time. I've lost money on DIY jobs that were simpler than this and ended up paying for somebody to fix it.

 

[TucsonMTB]

You can do it!

I'm really looking for an opinion on whether or not you guys think I'll be capable to do it myself.

I was able to do it. So, it can't be too hard. But, it took a fair amount of time and patience, as described in this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/336464-new-appreciation-you-professionals.html

This was my first time fitting anything to a revolver too. And, yeah, I was worried, even though I usually enjoy small projects like this. Once you get the first charge hole to carry up correctly, you will encouraged and start to seriously enjoy the process.

Admittedly, I had a spare extractor on hand just in case . . . That helped me relax a little.

Oh, and going slow with hand tools while using some kind of a magnifier will further increase your already good chances for success, especially if you have "old eyes" like mine.

 

[s&wchad]

This 686 is out of time, and I don't know for sure, but lock up seems a little loose.

Please explain why you think it's out of time. Does the gun shave lead when fired? Is the hammer falling in DA mode before the cylinder stop engages? Are you checking it with fired cases in alternating chambers?

S&W revolvers don't lock up like a Colt. A noticeable amount of rotational play is normal.

 

[dgansen]

Please explain why you think it's out of time. Does the gun shave lead when fired? Is the hammer falling in DA mode before the cylinder stop engages? Are you checking it with fired cases in alternating chambers?

S&W revolvers don't lock up like a Colt. A noticeable amount of rotational play is normal.

Unless I cock the hammer VERY fast, the cylinder stop does not engage; same with double action, even at reasonable speeds, the stop doesn't engage until after the hammer drops. I had it fully loaded with snap caps while checking, is that incorrect? What is the purpose of the alternating fired cases?

Thanks again for all the info guys, I really appreciate you helping a newbie out!

 

[TucsonMTB]

By the way, based on your description of the slow timing of your revolver, the part that needs attention is the hand, not the extractor that I worked on.

Midway has a video that explains the process: Gunsmithing - How to Repair Slow Timing on a S&W Revolver - YouTube

Oh, and I looked at the prices you were quoted. They seem very reasonable and would make me think twice about doing it myself. Admittedly, I probably would still do it myself to avoid being without the revolver as long as it may take to have it done professionally, but that's just me . . .

 

[s&wchad]

It sounds like you do have a timing problem. I agree with TucsonMTB, it probably needs a new hand installed and fitted. Shipping costs to S&W will be as much or more than the quoted service, so you may want to look for a local gunsmith who's familiar with S&W revolvers.

Timing is checked with fired cases in place, because the cases take up any play between the extractor star and the cylinder. Placing one in every other chamber is enough to take up the slack. Snap caps may or may not work, depending on the body diameter.

 

[scooter123]

Just to confirm if you are testing the timing correctly could you answer the following. Are you "dragging" the cylinder when you check the timing. If you are you are doing it wrong[/b]. You should NOT put any drag on the cylinder when testing the carry up. Using a thumb on the cylinder to test for carry up is a Gunshop Commando trick to show that your trade in needs a tune up and unfortunately this practice has now spread to the internet. The proper test for carry up is to pull the trigger at a slow pace and listen for the stop to drop before the hammer falls.

 

[KAC]

Also, have empty cases or snap caps in at least two chambers when checking timing.

KAC

 

[M3Stuart]

Regardless, I'll definitely buy the book; sounds like it's a staple for anyone who owns a S&W revolver

I'm really looking for an opinion on whether or not you guys think I'll be capable to do it myself.

like I said, I've had them apart, swapped springs, cleaned them... just never started hand fitting parts for them. I guess I'll buy the book, see what's involved in the process, and go from there!

I'll definitely check the alignment pins, too; after all, it can't hurt! Thanks for all the responses, keep it coming with any more suggestions or info, I'm here to learn!

Welcome to the forum!

Dude, read your own post. You sound like a future gunsmith and major contributor to the forum's 'gunsmithing' section!

 

[ridgewalker]

Old Italian man to young Michaelangelo, "Michaelangelo, put-a down-a that-a chisel-a and-a hammer-a. You-a don't-a know-a what-a you-a are-a doing."

Seriously though, you sound like a handy kid who wants to learn. Getting the manual, making sure you got the right tools, (I'm sure that's covered in the manual,) and watching as many videos on places like Midway and U-tube should help you along. Regarding tools, scan back in this gunsmithing section of the forum. There are threads every month or so regarding best tools.

Just wondering, what is the history of your revolver that it is so messed up?

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[dgansen]

Just wondering, what is the history of your revolver that it is so messed up?

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.

Long story short, my buddy needed some quick cash and fire saled it; his son is about my age, and he cowboy'd it a LOT. Spinning the cylinder, throwing it shut, stuff that I generally hear not to do. Hopefully nothing that can't be fixed with some TLC, though

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'll give it a try fitting the parts; worst case, I'm out $50 between parts and the book, and it goes to S&W anyways.

-dgansen

 

[flintsghost]

While I think it is important for owners to understand how these revolvers work and when something is wrong...I don't believe a book/DVD is going to substitute for someone who has both the proper armorers training and the tools to set one up properly and correct problems. Based on what you stated as the history you know of the weapon, you probably need to make sure that the crane is in proper alignment first. You would be well advised to consider either sending it back to S&W or find a certified armorer close to you. Usually, they aren't that hard to find.