Here is the marking on one of mine that spent some time in custody....
Robert
Robert
6906: Help with sights and Is It an "Evidence" Gun?
- Thread starter Redcoat3340
- Start date
Exactly. Folks seem to forget that people with prior criminal records can’t buy guns through legitimate sources. Consequently many of the suspects apprehended with a firearm are in possession of a stolen firearm that can often be traced back to the original owner, especially if the theft was reported in the same jurisdiction.
When a suspect is apprehended with a stolen firearm, the gun is certainly evidence. However, etching it with evidence marks defaces the firearm and significantly reduces the value of the firearm. That still matters once the suspect has been convicted and the gun is returned to the legal owner.
If for example one of my excellent condition Collectible S&W revolvers were stolen, recovered and then marked in that manner, I would not be pleased. In fact, I’d shortly be pursuing damages from the department for needlessly defacing *my* personal property because they were too inept to maintain a chain of evidence via the unique serial number applied by the manufacturer per federal law.
Now...if it’s a pre-1968 non serial numbered firearm there is an argument for marking the gun. But it can still be done under the grips or stock with small and unobtrusive numbers. They also do not need to be electro pencilled on the gun - a paint marker works fine. So does a metal tag with the evidence number on a cable crimped through the trigger guard.
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Maybe you didn't mark all the evidence where you were but that wouldn't have made it far in the courts around here.
I guess in all those many murders you worked you never sent a gun to the lab and seen what they can do to them. Or had a gun sit for years in an evidence vault covered in blood and seen what it looks like afterwards.
TV shows don't show that kind of stuff.
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Green Frog
Member
FWIW, as I was reading this I did think of a valid reason to positively mark the barrel of a semi-auto being held in evidence... just think how easily a barrel can be changed in a S&W semiauto. If part of the evidence presented is a bullet match, five minutes and a different barrel could blow a case out of the water.
Froggie
Froggie
EldoEsq
Member
I think mine is an evidence gun...
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
3wire
Member
Question for the LEO's responding to this thread - in an officer involved fatal shooting, is the officers handgun removed from service and subjected to this same type of evidence marking on their service handgun as shown above, for any court proceeding that may be required?
Also for the LEO's, I know in today's environment, it is becoming increasingly more difficult to protect and serve your community. I appreciate your service and all that you do in the performance of your duties. Be safe!
Also for the LEO's, I know in today's environment, it is becoming increasingly more difficult to protect and serve your community. I appreciate your service and all that you do in the performance of your duties. Be safe!
OP
Many thanks to all who contributed here, it is much appreciated. I'm convinced it's an evidence gun.
Two thing:
When I first got it, it was in tough shape. But after a detailed, complete strip (except for the safety), a couple of gallons of CPL, some Mothers mag polish and elbow grease has put it into much better shape. And when I shot it after just a field strip and cleaning is shot okay. I'll be shooting it next week for accuracy. Wondering why, Trooper, you think the property number is the least of its problems. It was never gonna be anything other than a shooter. (And maybe a carry gun after a couple of hundred fault-free rounds.
Thing #2: Sights!! I'm hearing that Novaks won't fit into the gun without milling or a bunch of filing. Wondering where, then, I can get either straight replacements for existing sights or what others folks think will fit without extensive "fitting."
(And what slide will fit on the 6906? 659? (I just sold a 5906 so that ain't gonna happen [replaced it with a 5946TSW that's been converted to DA/SA]. I seem to recall that TSW slides won't fit non-TSW frames.) I'll be looking for a replacement 6906, 6904 or 5906 slide....but I'd like to just get the sights fixed.)
Two thing:
When I first got it, it was in tough shape. But after a detailed, complete strip (except for the safety), a couple of gallons of CPL, some Mothers mag polish and elbow grease has put it into much better shape. And when I shot it after just a field strip and cleaning is shot okay. I'll be shooting it next week for accuracy. Wondering why, Trooper, you think the property number is the least of its problems. It was never gonna be anything other than a shooter. (And maybe a carry gun after a couple of hundred fault-free rounds.
Thing #2: Sights!! I'm hearing that Novaks won't fit into the gun without milling or a bunch of filing. Wondering where, then, I can get either straight replacements for existing sights or what others folks think will fit without extensive "fitting."
(And what slide will fit on the 6906? 659? (I just sold a 5906 so that ain't gonna happen [replaced it with a 5946TSW that's been converted to DA/SA]. I seem to recall that TSW slides won't fit non-TSW frames.) I'll be looking for a replacement 6906, 6904 or 5906 slide....but I'd like to just get the sights fixed.)
Things might be different in the US, but for my 21 years in the Police, I've never seen Exhibit guns engraved like above. The integrity of the exhibit has been tampered with by fiddling with it. OK if the Court case has been completed and there are no appeals. The only time I ever saw engraving numbers on guns is when they have been handed into Police has a surrendered item. We had a number of gun buybacks over the years here in Australia. I believe the guns might then be engraved with a Property Book reference number to track it until it has been destroyed.
I can't remember the exact gun I had after one search warrant, whatever it was, it was meant to have been destroyed in another States Buyback yet I had it in my hands booking it up as an exhibit.
3wire
Member
Redcoat3340, Trijicon makes a night sight for the earlier non-Novak sight 6906, it comes in three models, SA05, SA05O & SA05Y for different color sights. You can find these on Amazon.
If you are going to try to change the rear sight yourself, I would recommend using a sight pusher, such as the NcStar VTUPRS Universal Pistol Rear Sight Pusher tool, you can find it on Amazon for $50-$60. There are also videos on YouTube showing how to use this sight pusher. There are videos that show how to push out sights using a vise with a hammer and brass punch, but I wouldn't recommend using that approach as its too easy to slip and markup the slide and/or the new sight as well.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
If you are going to try to change the rear sight yourself, I would recommend using a sight pusher, such as the NcStar VTUPRS Universal Pistol Rear Sight Pusher tool, you can find it on Amazon for $50-$60. There are also videos on YouTube showing how to use this sight pusher. There are videos that show how to push out sights using a vise with a hammer and brass punch, but I wouldn't recommend using that approach as its too easy to slip and markup the slide and/or the new sight as well.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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You are correct TSW slides are not interchangeable with non_TSW slides. But if I remember correctly 3013 slides are same geometry as 6906. I think there are some currently on ebay - if not I think I have one but with older original style fixed sight.
My mistake, the slides on ebay are 3953 which will not work - you need TDA not DAO. If you can wait til next week, I can check to see if I have a 3013 slide.
Trijicon SA05 Bright & Tough™ Night Sights - Smith & Wesson 3904/06, 6904/06 should fit early fixed sight slides.
Doug M.
Member
*
They should not be as a general rule. The condition of the firearm should be documented by an armorer level inspection and testing, which should be done in a matter of hours. There is generally no good reason to retain the officer's firearm as it is not evidence* in most cases (see Evidence Rule 401, et seq.)
*The condition of the firearm at the time MAY be relevant but that's the basis for the armorer inspection and documentation of that. There may be times where it is appropriate, but they are darned few.
This is almost never done right, and I HATE it when non-lawyers try to discuss the evidentiary value and potential admission of a an item. My best guess based on experience is that in this state, the worst agency with regard to legal issues is the State Patrol. I don't care if they retain a WSP firearm forever because it issued, but if it is an officer's property and they don't return it within 24-48 hours, it's likely to get someone charged.
That's a no to marking where I used to work. In my shooting, my 67 was taken to the lab and test fired (they do that to be able to say I was, indeed, the one who shot the defendant.) The evidence detective issued me a replacement revolver and ammo right there at the scene. I was called up to the lab (top floor @ HQ) and traded them back on my next shift, a day or two later. No markings or tags, and they even cleaned it up for me.
In my experience, marking evidence is something that's done because the DA and the department require it. I've never seen or heard of anyone deliberately defacing a firearm or anything else; any markings were usually done where the property technician said was what the DA wanted. In later years when things were computerized, bar code stickers and tags replaced marking on anything turned in to property for any reason. I understand that the stickers were the "tamper-proof" variety that showed if someone tried to remove them. Big improvement.
I purchased a S&W 5967 from a local pawn shop with a bloody and sorted past. It was a murder gun and was recovered in a pool of the victim's blood. Held as evidence and was found to be a stolen gun. In Georgia, stolen firearms must be returned to their legal owners. The owner obviously didn't want the firearm and sold it to the pawnbroker. They did a cursorial cleaning of the outside and put it out for sale.
I come along and see a limited Lou Horton 5967, the only mid-size frame 9mm automatic born of the 5900 series. Dirt cheap gun too, got it for around 250 bucks. I got what I paid for though, upon disassembling for initial detail cleaning came out all the dried caked blood. I'm not squeamish so I sojourned on cleaning all the dark red-black caked material from the frame and slide. Did a detail strip, removing it from the detent spring areas on the slide. The sear release arm had decocking issues, and after ordering three replacements, one finally got it in correct safe working order. A trip to the gunsmith removed whoever Mr. Sanchez was lightly engraved on the slide. Then a reblue and polish. Looks excellent, shoots excellent.
I come along and see a limited Lou Horton 5967, the only mid-size frame 9mm automatic born of the 5900 series. Dirt cheap gun too, got it for around 250 bucks. I got what I paid for though, upon disassembling for initial detail cleaning came out all the dried caked blood. I'm not squeamish so I sojourned on cleaning all the dark red-black caked material from the frame and slide. Did a detail strip, removing it from the detent spring areas on the slide. The sear release arm had decocking issues, and after ordering three replacements, one finally got it in correct safe working order. A trip to the gunsmith removed whoever Mr. Sanchez was lightly engraved on the slide. Then a reblue and polish. Looks excellent, shoots excellent.
Tom-R2
Member
============
My duty pistol was returned after the grand jury hearing returned a "no-bill", but that was in 1984/85. It DID come back very dirty, I don't know how many extra rounds someone at BCI or the local SO put through it before I got it back over what they needed for ballistics testing. It was a Beretta 92, it was almost a novelty in my rural area back then, most officers throughout the county had not seen one at the time. If mine had any marks on it, I still haven't found them.
Jim Watson
Member
Heck, I am glad to see "evidence guns" "back on the street."
So many jurisdictions think that guns acquire bad habits and should not be allowed to resume their criminal careers.
The PD here either scraps confiscated guns or saves them for their "reference collection" perhaps to be used to show cops how to unload guns not covered at the academy.
I know of one subrosa barrel swap with a gun going to the Big House or the foundry.
So many jurisdictions think that guns acquire bad habits and should not be allowed to resume their criminal careers.
The PD here either scraps confiscated guns or saves them for their "reference collection" perhaps to be used to show cops how to unload guns not covered at the academy.
I know of one subrosa barrel swap with a gun going to the Big House or the foundry.
hammy5150
Member
The campus PD where I went to school had a Model 59 framed up on the wall that was seized on campus at some point. It looked in pretty good condition and I always wondered if it still worked.
