6906 magazine disconnect disconnect?

[Sevens]

Hahaha this is always a divisive subject. There are so many ways to make the argument and we typically hit most of them.

There's another angle that I think gets missed.

I think one reason that SOME really like the idea of a magazine disconnect is that in the real world, with generally reckless/careless/inept gun handlers, a magazine disconnect can, will, does and absolutely has prevented many negligent discharges.

Personally, I believe that if all semiautomatic firearms had them, there would be a (continued) dumbing down and growing idiocy in gund handling.

Of course, I've long felt the same with with pistol decockers. Mankind managed with single action and double action revolvers for a long time before mechanical decockers became popular and I was of the belief then (and still now) that manually decocking a hammer on a handgun was a necessary technique that a handgun owner needs to have in his mental/physical toolkit.

Flipping a lever on a handgun to lower a hammer has never been a feature that I wanted or really enjoyed having... with guns that you love, you learn to accept parts of it that aren't your favorite. I tried to address that in my post, #4 in this discussion.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Hahaha this is always a divisive subject. There are so many ways to make the argument and we typically hit most of them.

There's another angle that I think gets missed.

I think one reason that SOME really like the idea of a magazine disconnect is that in the real world, with generally reckless/careless/inept gun handlers, a magazine disconnect can, will, does and absolutely has prevented many negligent discharges.

Personally, I believe that if all semiautomatic firearms had them, there would be a (continued) dumbing down and growing idiocy in gund handling.

Of course, I've long felt the same with with pistol decockers. Mankind managed with single action and double action revolvers for a long time before mechanical decockers became popular and I was of the belief then (and still now) that manually decocking a hammer on a handgun was a necessary technique that a handgun owner needs to have in his mental/physical toolkit.

Flipping a lever on a handgun to lower a hammer has never been a feature that I wanted or really enjoyed having... with guns that you love, you learn to accept parts of it that aren't your favorite. I tried to address that in my post, #4 in this discussion.

The arguments for the disconnect are safety arguments, and the arguments against involve combat readiness. There is a tension between these two concepts and nothing that we have said gives any insight into how the proper balance between them may be achieved.

Jeff Cooper always spoke against depending on any kind of mechanical device for safety. But the mag disconnect is not done by me for me, it is done by administrators to control the ignorant. The Belgians requested it on their Hi Power pistols from Browning in 1926. People just BELIEVE that taking out the mag, unloads the pistol! The Germans rejected it. The latest version of the Hi-Power from FN does not have the disconnect thus improving the trigger they say.

I sometimes shoot with "the Boys" in my church. They told me last time that they saw Ed eject a round from the chamber, drop the magazine, point the gun at the wall, in a safe direction, and pull the trigger. BANG! Ed was the only one who was surprised. "Why did you do that?" the Boys asked. A man with 20+years of experience with guns had no answer. He did fix the hole in the wall, however.

Best Regards!
BrianD

 

[Transamconvert]

If anyone is missing their nylon plunger and spring I would be happy to send them one.

 

[rosewood]

Hahaha this is always a divisive subject. There are so many ways to make the argument and we typically hit most of them.

There's another angle that I think gets missed.

I think one reason that SOME really like the idea of a magazine disconnect is that in the real world, with generally reckless/careless/inept gun handlers, a magazine disconnect can, will, does and absolutely has prevented many negligent discharges.

Personally, I believe that if all semiautomatic firearms had them, there would be a (continued) dumbing down and growing idiocy in gund handling.

Of course, I've long felt the same with with pistol decockers. Mankind managed with single action and double action revolvers for a long time before mechanical decockers became popular and I was of the belief then (and still now) that manually decocking a hammer on a handgun was a necessary technique that a handgun owner needs to have in his mental/physical toolkit.

Flipping a lever on a handgun to lower a hammer has never been a feature that I wanted or really enjoyed having... with guns that you love, you learn to accept parts of it that aren't your favorite. I tried to address that in my post, #4 in this discussion.

The hammer spur would have to be added back to some of those decocker guns so you have something to hold with your thumb.

I do consider that a mag disconnect would be useful in making your firearm safe around kids. Of course, you have to make sure the only magazine accessible is the one in your pocket. All other spares must be locked up.

Rosewood

 

[Yaworski]

I do consider that a mag disconnect would be useful in making your firearm safe around kids.

I made my guns safe around my kids with an education program that began as soon as they could speak.

When my daughter was in kindergarten we were at a gun shop. One of the clerks handed someone a gun and my little one started yelling, "He didn't open the gun first!!" Embarrassed the clerk but the S&W rep who was there at the time was impressed and gave her a 686 pin that she still has 25 years later.

I had a gun shop clerk tell me that they didn't always open guns because they "knew" that the guns were unloaded. How does a five year old have a better handle on the rules than a "professional"? Regarding unloaded gun in gun displays, there's a video on youtube of a guy being handed a gun from a display case, it isn't cleared, and the guy blows a hole in his hand.

 

[Brian Parrish]

FWIW - like disconnects or not - I'll post my frequent reminder that any of the S&W 39/59 pattern pistols can be fired with the magazine removed.

I know of two accidental deaths when the users inadvertently discovered this.

Of course, the two digit pistols can inertia fire with the magazine removed.

Relying on the disconnect rather than unloading -- removing the magazine while leaving a round in the chamber -- was always a bad idea. I never saw it suggested after the mid 1970's.

Interestingly, some young friends still in the business report that they've never had weapon retention training, in the academy or later.

Inconceivable that there's no training on weapon retention. Sure they depend on the efficacy of their magic holsters to do that for them.

Mag out with chamber charged? While I have no knowledge of any agency recommending such, I can tell you the rationale for it. What happened was that we learned that the erratic behavior and poor accuracy of the 180 grain bullet in the 40S&W cartridge was due in part to the extreme fluctuation of pressures due to the seating depth and shortening however slight of the overall cartridge length. The shortening of the OAL was found to be caused by "administrative handling" of the pistol. The solutions which were applied include:
-manufacturers reducing powder charges to gain a margin of safety. This of course obviates the entire purpose for the cartridge's existence IMHO. This has been done across the board, no going back now, and may explain the current trend back to 10mm.
-never chambering a round twice, or three times or four, whatever the person thinks is too much.
-leaving the chambered round in, which is my solution.
-substituting the 165 grain load which has not been powder weakened though it is said not to have the terminal ballistics of the 180 grain projectile. This works for me as a solution because I get excellent accuracy with certain rounds like the Ranger Bonded 165gr.

Please correct me anyone, I am no expert!

Kind Regards,
BrianD

 

[Fastbolt]

... Id say drop mag ( after I just just enough pressure on trigger to engage sear). Mag falls i say will gun fire?
Trainee shakes head no, i fire the magless gun.
Moral of story to class, there are no absolutes.

This was something known to experienced users due to the way the trigger had already engaged with the sear under those specific conditions, before the trigger bar could change positions.