696 moon clip conversions?

[MikeChandler]

Has anybody done a moon clip conversion on the 696? How did it work out? Any issues?

I know it works great for .45 acp, I am wondering how it would work with the longer brass of the .44spl.

 

[wantmoresmiths]

Cutting the cylinder to accept moonclips works well for .38/357 caliber revolvers as well as those chambered for the .44 magnum so I would see no reason the .44 special would not work equally as well. I would, however, be concerned about the work having a negative effect on the value of the gun. If this gun is your everyday CCW then the ability to reload quickly might out weigh the negative impact on the guns value, although you can come pretty darn close to the speed of a moonclip reload by using a speed loader. Using a speed loader is slightly slower than reloading with a moonclip, but it can be done without affecting the value of the gun. Your use of the gun should play a significant role in determining the feasibility of a moonclip conversion.

 

[k22fan]

The only .44 special moon clip revolver I've watched being fired in matches is a 624. I've never heard of a 5 shot .44 special being cut to take moon clips so my first question is do the clips exist?

I love .40 S&W, .45 ACP and 10 MM moon clip revolvers but I would not trust .357 or .44 spl./mag. moon clip revolvers for service or defense. The clips for the auto pistol cartridges are thicker and not prone to missfires. The clips for .357, .41 and .44 are thin and prone to bending during loading and unloading. Once bent mainspring energy is consumed flattening out the bend resulting in missfires. The clips for revolver cartridges also cost four time as much and their future availability is in doubt. If 5 shot .44 special moon clips even exist, they'd be among the first to be discontinued for lack of demand.

 

[mc5aw]

Moon clipping a 696 would ruin a near $1,000 rarity. Spend a couple fins and get a deuce pack of Bianchi speed strips, then take the money you saved on a moon clip job and invest in a case of quality .44 Special ammo.

 

[MikeChandler]

It's a 696-1, no box or papers, gunbroker special, and it's been fired at least 250 rounds, if not twice that, judging by the score on the top strap above the forcing cone. So this is no collectible gun. That being said it's a fun shooter.

It's already going to Nelson Ford (a local gunsmith) next week for the "supersmith" package. He did the supersmith package on my 686-3, and it's exceptional - the DA pull is amazing. So since that will be modifying the gun, I figure why not go all out?

TK Precision can do the moon clip conversion, which will also chamber normally without moon clips, and provide a set of 10 match grade moon clips for $200, including return shipping. I think I am going to send them the cylinder when I get the gun back from Nelson.

If there was such a thing as a 691, I'd do it to that, as the only thing better for me would be a trench sight, but I don't believe they made one. Maybe I should call S&W and ask them about a custom made one? But I imagine it would cost thousands.

So for me, this is it for L-frame .44spl.

 

[KLYDE]

FIXED SIGHT .44

Mike,
I too have an affinity for the fixed sight guns. Unfortunately no 691 or equivilent fixed sight .44 Spl offered from S&W. I was in a LGS a couple of weeks ago and stumbled across this Taurus M431. 3" fixed sight .44 SPL. Only drawback is the SB. Been to the range and it shoots surprisingly well. Action is acceptable. While not quite on par with the finish of a Smith it fills the bill for a fun shooter. Again we ask ourselves, why didn't S&W build this gun in a RB. I believe if they did it would have been a huge success. Good luck and keep us filled in on your project.
Mike
696 & 431

 

[k22fan]

Smith & Wesson did make fixed sight 5 shot L frame .44 specials in their Centennial style 296 and 396 Night Guard. Unfortunately from an active shooter's perspective they kick too much to be any fun due to their aluminum/scandium alloy frames. With its titanium cylinder the 296 weighed only 19 ounces and was marked maximum bullet weight 200 grains. 296s are interesting pocket revolvers that wouldn't drag down one side of your coat. The 396's steel cylinder added a few ounces. S&W advertised that the 396's fixed sight could be interchanged with a standard adjustable sight, so logically a 696's adjustable sight could be switched to a Night Guard style fixed sight.

 

[KLYDE]

K22,
Yes I neglected to mention the lightweight 296 and its brother. Being an owner of a 342Ti there is certainly an advantage to these lightweights for their intended applications. Matter of fact, I would gladly purchase a 296 if I could find a nice one. I don't think I would want to spend a day at the range with either gun.

I had a full stainless fixed sight .44 spl on my wish list from S&W. Similar to the 681, only in the RB and 3' bbl configuration. As far as the 396 rear sight on the 696 goes, it is still not the same profile as a true fixed sight gun. I guess we could dream up guns all day long.
Mike

 

[357larry]

Not sure why the OP thinks a 696-1 is not a desirable piece. Most of the no dash and -1s I see around my area go for comparable prices. Now the -2s are dogs, internal lock, the hi-viz sights, and laser engraved markings.

Even with no box and being a shooter, a 696-1 would be worth around $900 to $1,000 in my area, until you bubba-ize it for moon clips. Then it would for all intents and purposes, be worthless.

 

[MikeChandler]

K22,
Yes I neglected to mention the lightweight 296 and its brother. Being an owner of a 342Ti there is certainly an advantage to these lightweights for their intended applications. Matter of fact, I would gladly purchase a 296 if I could find a nice one. I don't think I would want to spend a day at the range with either gun.

I had a full stainless fixed sight .44 spl on my wish list from S&W. Similar to the 681, only in the RB and 3' bbl configuration. As far as the 396 rear sight on the 696 goes, it is still not the same profile as a true fixed sight gun. I guess we could dream up guns all day long.
Mike

S&W forum group buy maybe? 691 fixed sight .44 special, 5 shot 3", round butt, moon clips, brass bead front sight, and no dang ILS. Now if we can just get 500 users to say, "Count me in!"

I have a PC 629 carry comp, fixed sight .44 magnum 3" ported. It's cool, but a beast of a size in comparison to the 696.

Not sure why the OP thinks a 696-1 is not a desirable piece. Most of the no dash and -1s I see around my area go for comparable prices. Now the -2s are dogs, internal lock, the hi-viz sights, and laser engraved markings.

Even with no box and being a shooter, a 696-1 would be worth around $900 to $1,000 in my area, until you bubba-ize it for moon clips. Then it would for all intents and purposes, be worthless.

This gun is ported btw - less desirable to most folks. One man's junk is another man's treasure, I guess.

 

[k22fan]

[...] This gun is ported btw - less desirable to most folks. [...]

Here's a tid-bit you might consider in deciding whether it makes financial sense to customize your 696. It may be one of 286 Lew Horton ported 696s from Dec. 1996. S&W sent them to Magnaport who sent them on to Lew Horton after porting them. In most collectors' eyes that would make it a rare factory original variation of an uncommon revolver.

Here's a recent thread on one of the Lew Horton ported 696s. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/274833-696-mag-na-port-update-post-9-a.html

 

[MikeChandler]

Nope it's not either of those; It's not a Lew Horton, and it's not a factory porting job. Instead, it has four circular holes in the barrel, two on each side of the sight. It's undeniably from Bubba's Porting Service and Rare Revolver Ruination Shop, somewhere, USA.

Unless somebody else can definitely find this gun as a distributor or factory model, I have to assume it's Bubba'd. That being said it is in truly marvelous condition (other than those four holes in the top of the barrel).

 

[k22fan]

Agreed. Bubba's Porting Service and Rare Revolver Ruination Shop's exquisite machining does indeed give you license to do as you please. At least its stocks have great grain and color.

 

[MikeChandler]

Yeah, it was a real kicker, seeing at the cylinder didn't even have a turnline yet. The seller swore on a stack of handloader magazines that it was a factory porting, but it doesn't look like any S&W job to me. That being said, it's actually fine, they blow off in a V, and don't bother me at all. Not that a 44 spl needs porting... but oh well - when I get some idea how hot I can push it, I'll see.

On the bright side, as indicated, I have license to thrill!

EDIT: Just wanted to update this after having spoken to S&W about doing the moon clips there. As it truns out this was part of a 696-1 run with a factory porting job - who'd a guessed it? All of which changes things substantially - I am not going to moon clip it.

 

[acco40]

TK CUSTOM sells the moonclips and will also do the cylinder conversion. My 696 was done by them and it works great.

 

[jdb3]

I had this conversion done to my 480 Ruger and it was the best improvement I've made. Very convenient and can carry different loads and exchange them quickly and easily. One load for "Big Brown Furry Things" and one for grouse. Jim

 

[Dave T]

Even with no box and being a shooter, a 696-1 would be worth around $900 to $1,000 in my area, until you bubba-ize it for moon clips. Then it would for all intents and purposes, be worthless.

Refer all future questions on revolver worth to 357larry. He is now the declared expert on what's worthless and what isn't.

Dave

 

[Sherminator]

Refer all future questions on revolver worth to 357larry. He is now the declared expert on what's worthless and what isn't.

Dave

You bet he is...
Just because I don't like something you have does not make it, "for all intents and purposes" worthless. If the OP had decided to cut the cylinder, the gun would've filled a defensive role, hardly "worthless"

 

[zac0419]

TK CUSTOM sells the moonclips and will also do the cylinder conversion. My 696 was done by them and it works great.

I too am considering this for my 396NG. Did you have any issues with certain brass? I read that Starline sometimes doesn't work well with the clips. Just curious of your experience, I emailed TK and I'm awaiting a response.

 

[Drail]

One thing that you should consider on this is that moon clips for straight rimmed revolver cartridges (like .357 and .44) have to be thinner because the case groove dia. is smaller than say a .45 ACP case groove. The rounds in a clip of .45 ACPs have more "wiggle factor" so they self align with the chambers easily. When you switch to a straight rimmed cartridge there is much less wiggle room which means you need to have the clipped rounds lined up more precisely with the chambers. Get in a hurry under stress and you'll miss half of the time. I don't think a moon clipped 696 would be as fast to reload as say, a 625 and the clips are much more easily bent. In my experience. FWIW, I have a 696 from the first year of production and I would not consider converting it to moon clips. Speedloaders are a pain to carry but they work fast enough for me. But in .45 ACP? Moon clips are the way.