8x57mm Mauser help

[andyo5]

Hi, all!
I have a 1942 military K98 Mauser in great condition and am shooting it with the military open sights. I have tried two types of bullets in it so far:

1. 200 grain Sierra Match King over 45g of IMR 4064. Max load is 46g per Speer load manual. These shoot to correct elevation at 100 yards with windage off to the left about 1 inch. They shoot a bit low at 50 yards. At 500 yards, I am on target if I set the open sight at the 600 meters position.

2. 185 grain Remington Core Lokt bullet over 46.5 grains of IMR 4064. This load gives me small groups at 100 yards (3 to 4 inches) with open sights. But it shoots 3" high at 50 yards and 10" high at 100 yards. I have not shot it at longer distances yet.

I like the accuracy of load #2 and could experiment more with it, but am unable to find any more of the bullets. They appear to be very limited in availability for some reason.
My goal is to try to get the gun to shoot point of aim at various distances, in accord with the markings on the rear sight ( which are in meters, starting with 100). I wish to continue using IMR 4064 powder.
I am looking for bullet recommendations, hopefully for bullets without availability issues. Load recommendations using 4064 would also be welcome.

Thanks!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Your sights are probably set for 154 grain Spitzer bullet at about 2860 feet per second. I used to buy pulled military bullets when I loaded 8x57, and I used IMR 3031 with VERY good results.

German sporting ammo had lots of bullet weights, just like American 30-06. It is a military rifle, go for the military load for the right war. (WWII) Yes it uses the "JRS" bullet in .323" diameter.

You will never get either of those bullets to shoot to multiple sight settings! You might try Hornady bullets and loading data. (Most 200 grain American made bullets are for the 8mm Remington Mag, and are thick jacketed for the higher velocity. Most 200 grain German bullets are for the model 88 rifles and are round nose and .318" diameter.) I have no idea why anyone in America would make a 185 grain 8mm bullet.

Ivan

 

[Duckford]

The heavier bullets aren't just for the Remington Magnum, keep in mind the .323 is a bigger caliber and the military rifles have slow twists, making them ideal for heavier bullets, and are excellent for heavier than the standard military spitzers. In fact, 196 is .the 8mm's "native" bullet weight, like .308 has 168 grain. 30-06 and 8mm Mauser may have both run lighter spitzer for general military use, but both use heavier for special purposes such as armor piercing and match/sniper. For hunting game as light as deer, these bullet weights are more appropriate for each than the 150-154 grain bullets available for each. In all honesty, 200 grain is right up the alley for 8mm Mauser, in fact, its more appropriate all considered.

The Europeans use the 8mm JS much more than the US, and take it more seriously, and also don't have backwards SAAMI pressure ratings for it to gut it out. Take a look at European loads and bullets, 196 is THE hunting bullet weight. Prvi Partizan, Sellier and Bellot, Norma use 196, because that's the old standard and the best. If I had to take hunting very seriously with my Mauser's, it would be Norma Oryx, and their 196 grain. I've tried S&B's SPCE 196 and loved it in my old military rifles.

So, yes Ivan, you are right, the rifle is regulated for the spitzer, but no, there is good reason why 170, 185, and especially 196 and 200 grain bullets are made for the 8mm JS, and there are good bullets made in that weight made perfectly for it, and are actually the BEST suited for both serious target and hunting. No, they won't fit the regulated iron sights, but balls out they are absolutely superior.

As for the original poster, be aware there are two completely different loading levels for the 8mm Mauser, the American SAAMI 40,000 CUP limit and the "true" limit which is 50,000 CUP pressure. The Americans load down their 8mm JS because they worry some fool will push a .232 JS bullet down a .318 bore. Long story short, since you have JS .323 bore and a strong action, you can use full size bullets and at loading limits closer to 50,000 CUP if you can find those proper loadings. Not only will heavier bullets affect POI compared to where the sights are regulated, but dropping the power and velocity will throw them completely goofball.

But I digress like I always do and type too much, but Ivan is dead right that you will have to find a bullet that either is the original military spitzer or is like it in weight and BC and then try to get the velocity similar, otherwise you will never, ever get POI right at every range with the military sights, that's impossible. I'll stand by my assertion that the heavier bullets are superior in every way over the lighter ones, except for matching original fixed sights.

I think you are onto something with the Sierra match bullets, if you load them right, just not for your particular parameters. In fact, I'm sure the boys at Sierra would love to help you if you sent them an e-mail on the subject and give them your details.

Good luck in any case.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The Rem. Core-lokt design has a very poor BC............
it drops like a rock.

If you can find a Speer, Sierra or even a Hornady bullet
near 154grs, go for it.
A boat tail will help on the 500 yard shots in most weapons
but there are some that do well with a flat base spritzer design.

Good luck.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Sierra 150 FBSP on sale, 100 @ $25.49 at Midway

 

[rwsmith]

Good thing....

Good thing you were looking for specific bullets a few years ago when there weren't any.

Oh, Hornady and Speer make nice boat tails.

 

[DWalt]

"Yes it uses the "JRS" bullet in .323" diameter."

8x57 JRS is a cartridge designation, not a bullet. J (I and J are interchangeable in German) stands for Infantry, R means a rimmed case, and S (spitzer, or pointed) indicates use of the the larger diameter (0.323") bullet, or S-caliber. The standard WWI and WWII round was the rimless 8x57 JS, the 8x57 JRS was normally used only in sporting rifles requiring rimmed cases, such as double rifles, drillings, etc.. The earlier German 1888 Commission rifle used the smaller diameter (0.318") round nose bullet, but the 1888 cartridge dimensions were otherwise identical to the 8x57 JS. Many of the 1888 Commission rifles were converted to use 8x57 JS cartridges during WWI simply by enlarging the chamber case neck diameter. They retained the 0.318" rifled barrel diameter, and it worked OK (I have fired many rounds of military 8x57 JS ammunition in a converted Turkish M1888). Converted 1888s will have the letter "S" stamped on the receiver ring.

 

[andyo5]

Thanks, all. I plan to first try increasing my load for the 200g Sierra bullet by 1 grain. I have found that the 1954 Yugoslavian rounds that I like to shoot use a 198 grain bullet over 41.7 grains of a square flake powder (IDK what type powder it is). I'd like to try and duplicate the performance of that round. If I can't do that, I plan to try lighter bullets.

 

[Culina]

Back when I loaded for the 8x57, I used mostly Nosler 180gr ballistic tips, they worked well but I never tried to get the impacts to correlate with the rear sight numbers. I also used IMR4064

 

[andyo5]

Back when I loaded for the 8x57, I used mostly Nosler 180gr ballistic tips, they worked well but I never tried to get the impacts to correlate with the rear sight numbers. I also used IMR4064

The K98 is a strange rifle. The official WWII German round used a 196 grain bullet at 2340 t0 2500 fps, depending on whose data you believe. I have some manufactured in Yugoslavia in 1954 that I clocked at 2370 fps, average of 10. But the sights are not regulated for this round. It makes me wonder how German solders managed to shoot at distances beyond 100 yards with any accuracy. For my purposes, at 300 yards I set to the 400 meter mark and shoot dead on. With Turkish ammo, I use the same setting and aim a bit low. I would expect the sight markings to be more useful than this.
My US Model 1903 shoots dead on at all the settings I have tried, out to 500 yards.