9 mm Carbines Smith & Wesson NOT the Light Rifle!

[PJGP]

The attachment is an extract from "Small Arms Liaison Notes" issued by the Director of Armaments, (British) Ministry of Supply in May 1945. Does anyone know anything about the two S&W machine carbines (sub-machine guns) described?

Clearly these are not the 1940 Light Rifle, if only because that did not use Sten magazines!

Peter

 

[L Pete]

Would that be the predecessor of the Model 76?

 

[A10]

Would that be the predecessor of the Model 76?

Interesting thought, though from the sketchy description it sounds like it fired from a closed bolt. Sure would love to see one!

 

[L Pete]

Inquiring minds want to know.......

 

[AlanDavid]

S&W 9mm Carbine Locked Breech

I have just got back from a month long gun-centric holiday in the States. Much of the trip involved visiting various archives for research into American made small arms supplied to the UK in WW1 and WW2. This took me to the S&W archives held in UMass or the University of Massachusetts special collections and library's, located in Amhurst.

One of the files had quite a bit of correspondence on a 9mm locked breech carbine that the factory was trying to interest allied nations in, during 1944 and 1945. This included samples being sent to France, India and the UK where it was tested at Pendine in 1944. A copy of this test will be in O B Proc's or Ordnance Board Proceedings, a set of which is located in the old Pattern Room Library in the Royal Armouries Leeds, UK. Unfortunately in another test the carbine did not perform well which was put sown to worn magazines and poor quality ammunition, however in the same test a Sten which was used for comparison functioned perfectly. The carbine was however more accurate - not surprising being locked breech and having a longer sight radius and was felt to have better handling characteristics than the Sten - no surprises here again.
There appear to have been at least 2 or 3 examples made, one with a folding stock.
A picture of one of these carbines appears on page 89 of "Images of America - Smith & Wesson" by Roy Jinks and Sandra C Krein. By coincidence I picked up a copy of this book from the shop located within the Springfield Armory Museum.

Now S&W historical experts - is there any record of a 9mm locked breech carbine appearing in the Smith & Wesson arms collection and if so are any known to still exist in a collection anywhere?

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

 

[opoefc]

Alan, I recall a discussion with Roy Jinks some years ago about these M! Carbine clones in 9mm, and .30 Carbine caliber, and at that time I believe there were some specimens in the factory museum. (Did you get a chance to look in the vault at the Imperial War Museum in London for the ones sent to Britain ?) The ones at the factory may now be in the S&W archived collection at the CVHM. I know there's at least one example in a private collection of a S&WCA member. If you were at the Springfield Armory Museum, did you get a chance to view the S&W collection at the CVHM? It's awesome ! Ed.

 

[AlanDavid]

I have seen a 1940 9mm Light Rifle that the Imperial War Museum has in its reserve collection, when I examined it a number of years ago the action was jammed, hopefully this has been fixed now. I will contact the National Firearms Center in Leeds , UK, which now houses the old Pattern Room collection but I doubt that they have one. I would think that the prototypes ended up back with Smith & Wesson.

I did not see the collection at CVHM, guess I will have to find an excuse to go back and have a look in a couple of years!

I did see the Colt collection housed in the Connecticut State Archive/Library in Hartford, at least the stuff that was on display. I got some pictures of the old Colt factory as well. I stayed a few nights in Hartford, while I went through the Colt Archive which is house in the same archive. Hartford is a nice place.

Regards
AlanD
Sydney

 

[DanP7]

Alan,

Glad we could impress you in Hartford. I wish we had more of our small arms industry intact, but the legacy is still something we can be proud to share. Best wishes with your research!

 

[wadcutter1]

Some info here:

The Smith and Wesson 9mm Carbines

 

[AlanDavid]

Thanks, interesting article and photos.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

 

[PJGP]

Some info here:

The Smith and Wesson 9mm Carbines

However, the last paragraph on the 1939 Light Rifle is seriously errored!

Peter