929 9mm - No Moon Clip Experience

[foytfoyt]

Can anyone who actually owns a 929 speak to how difficult it is to get cases out when not using a moon clip?

I understand that 9mm is a rimless cartridge, and that the ejector will not work without a moon clip.

My question is: Without a moon clip, will some of the cases just shake out, or come out "easily" with fingernails, or do the cases need to be poked out one at a time with a tool?

I know moon clips are great, but not for me. I like 9mm for the cheaper ammo, but if I must, I'll stick with a rimmed caliber.

 

[TANZER]

929

Moon clips are required. They are not an option. Same for the the Model 986.

 

[foytfoyt]

Moon clips are required. They are not an option. Same for the the Model 986.

Thanks, Tanzer.

I have heard that previously. I have also seen conflicting statements. I can see from the pictures on the S&W web site that there is a step in the cylinder bore, presumably to headspace the cartridge. Perhaps this has another purpose?

 

[xcpd69]

Thanks, Tanzer.

I have heard that previously. I have also seen conflicting statements. I can see from the pictures on the S&W web site that there is a step in the cylinder bore, presumably to headspace the cartridge. Perhaps this has another purpose?

No experience with the 9mm revolvers, but have a Model 25-2 45acp I've owned for 30 years. I have shot this pistol with both half and full moon clips and at times with no clip.

Shooting GI ball, most of the time just opening the cylinder and shaking it would drop the empties. If any failed to drop, a flick of the fingernail did the trick. However, with the higher pressure and smaller diameter of the 9mm, cases might be a bit more sticky.

Try it and see. Can't hurt.

P.S. I THINK Federal makes a rimmed version of the 9mm, called 9mm Federal. Similar to the 45 Auto Rim for the 45acp revolvers. (Something I never bothered with, since 45acp ball was MUCH cheaper back then)

 

[peterthefish]

You are unlikely to get reliable ignition without moonclips. Those rounds that do fire will require a pencil or some type of rod to extract.

 

[Pizza Bob]

You are correct in assuming the shoulder in the chamber is there for headspacing purposes. However, since SAAMI sets the specs for cartridge dimensions, the shoulder is placed at maximum case length depth for a given caliber. My experience has been that any factory ammo or brass, when new, is always considerably less than this dimension - meaning that, in reality, headspacing on that shoulder, by the case mouth, seldom actually occurs.

What does happen is that variances in chamber roundness, smoothness, cleanliness and other variables, will hold some cartridges firmly enough that a firing pin strike will ignite the primers. Others are driven forward in the chamber, which results in a light primer strike and a failure to ignite.

Just as some rounds are held tightly enough for ignition and others are driven forward, some cases may drop out of the cylinder from gravity, while others may be "pluckable" and yet others will have to be poked out using a rod.

You should consider moon clips essential for any revolver that is chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed round. The other alternative is using the rimmed version of that round, if one exists.

Moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread and your aversion to them is, most likely, founded in falsehoods found on the Internet or from people who either have no personal experience, or just a passing experience with them. In order to fully utilize, and fully enjoy, them requires the right tool(s) to load and unload the clips. For any 8-round revolver, the ultimate moon clip tool, which both loads and unloads the clips, is the BMT. You may balk at the cost ($80) - but consider what you just spent for the gun - isn't spending that extra little bit to insure full enjoyment from your investment worth it?

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[MTKTM]

I have a 625PC 45acp, and find it about 99% reliable without moon clips, 100% with. I don't mess with 45 Auto Rim because they are tough to find and expensive, ACP is fine.

I have a 929 on order. When it arrives I'll undoubtely play with it......a bunch.....including with/without clips. But I'm with Pizza Bob, think moonclips are great. In addition to the 625PC, which is one of my favorite and most frequently used revolvers, I have an 8-shot 627 which is cut for clips. The latter is a 38/357, so works fine with our without, but the clips are a great convenience. And yes, having the right tool makes the whole process pretty painless.

 

[foytfoyt]

Thanks everyone for your excellent responses, and willingness to help a new guy!

Some background to my question: I’m trying to decide between a 627 or waiting for a 929 for a range gun. I expect to fire over 10,000 rnds, so the small price delta between 9mm and 38 Special becomes a big deal. Since it is not for personal defense, reliability only needs to be high enough to not be annoying.

My wish to avoid moon clips is purely irrational. I find loading an auto pistol’s magazine to be slightly bothersome, but loading cartridges directly into a revolver’s cylinder, with no intermediate steps, to be great fun. I can’t explain why, but I really want that small joy.

Thanks for pointing out that variations in case length will result in play, resulting in increased potential for light strikes. Of course, even with rimmed cartridges, there is some play. I wonder how big the 9mm length tolerance is? Too much, and auto pistols could have a similar problem. I understand that a pistol’s extractor may hold the cartridge close to the breech face, but too much of this variation could result in the extractor not engaging, or in having to be designed with such a loose axial fit that the play problem still exists.

It’s also a good point that 9mm runs much higher pressure than 45 ACP, so the 929 could be more temperamental when it comes to getting the cases out. I understand that a definitive answer is impossible, given variation in chamber diameter, roughness, cleanliness, cartridge diameter, taper, etc…

MTKTM, please let me know how your 929 turns out!

 

[625 Shooter]

I too am amazed at the number of folks that don't like, or haven't/won't try, moon clips.

If one values a speedy and positive reload, NOTHING else compares.

Otherwise, there are plenty of other options in rimmed calibers, including the M627 .357/.38, which can be used with or without moon clips.

 

[David Sinko]

My recommendation is that you buy the 627. It will fire everything from .38 Short Colt to .357 Magnum, with or without moonclips, with complete reliability. It offers much greater flexibility and reliability than anything 9mm based. The new 9mm revolvers are not designed to function without moonclips. Properly boring a 9mm cylinder to chamber loose rounds requires a lot of time, effort and care and S&W is no longer up to the task.

Dave Sinko

 

[bananaman]

I don't know if they make them for that model or not. RIMZ poly moon clips. I like them for 45ACP. No tools required. Bob

 

[foytfoyt]

My recommendation is that you buy the 627. It will fire everything from .38 Short Colt to .357 Magnum, with or without moonclips, with complete reliability. It offers much greater flexibility and reliability than anything 9mm based. The new 9mm revolvers are not designed to function without moonclips. Properly boring a 9mm cylinder to chamber loose rounds requires a lot of time, effort and care and S&W is no longer up to the task.

Dave Sinko

Thanks. That is how I'm leaning: 627 5". Or dare I say it, a GP100 6" if I go the cheaper route. Or a 686 Plus 6".

 

[TenTea]

You won't know until you try it.

There is no substitute for direct experience!

*although we may avoid some discomfort and learn from the mistakes of others

 

[C0untZer0]

I'll share some experience I've had so far.

1) A-Zooms and Tipton Snap-Caps fit really loosely in the 929 moon clip. They're so loose it is hard to load the cylinder because the rounds fall out of the clip at the slightest touch.

2) I am having a lot of trouble loading the moon clip with actual 9mm live cartridges. I'm going to go to the range with a pencil and try shooting my 929 without the clip - if there is a trick to loading the moon clip without a tool, I haven't figured it out yet.

Does anyone have any advice on good moon clip loading & de-mooning tools?

 

[C0untZer0]

Just got back from the range. The 929 will not fire without moon clips. I tried a couple different brands of ammo and there wasn't even a scratch on the primers.

 

[C0untZer0]

Just thought I'd share some more info.

I ordered a pack of TK Custom moon clips and loaded those up for my next range trip.

I don't have a moonclip tool yet but I have one on order.

Loading aluminum cased ammo is fairly easy, I can do a whole clip by hand.

With brass cased ammo I can load most of the clip by hand but I need to use an Irwin bar-grip to load the last round, I just can't get the last round in there using just my thumb.

Steel-cased ammo is next to impossible to load in the moon clips. I had to use a bar grip, even on the first round and the last round was seriously a PITA. I only loaded one clip with Wolf ammo because it is so difficult and I'm not looking forward to de-mooning that clip either.

 

[tejano]

I took delivery of my new 929 two days ago. It came with only 1 moon clip. That clip is tight and tough to load. Since I have already had several 38/.357 moon clips on hand from a M327 I decided to try them. Well the rounds fit very loosely but I did get them on and tried them on the cylinder. Fit the cylinder just fine and appear to eject ok as well. But I won't know for sure until I get to the range later in the week. If it works, these clips would be good for informal range work.

 

[Macinaw]

Any style of moon clip loader will make loading the rounds effortless. Well worth the money.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I've been shooting moon-clip revolvers in competition since 1990. My first was a model 625-2 and over the years many more 625s along with some 627s, a 610, a 646 and a custom built 686 converted to .38 Super.

One of the handiest tools for loading moon clips is needle-nose pliers. I won't try to describe how to use them but if anyone can't figure it out they're lost anyway.

My first demooner was dowel rod which fits into the empty brass. A glove on your off hand helps reduce wear and tear.

There's no substitute for jumping into the game and learning stuff as you go.

Enjoy!!

 

[Desert Pete]

Moon clips are required. They are not an option. Same for the the Model 986.

In the 929 moon clips are required. The cartridges just rattle around in the chamber without them.