Will Carry
Member
Chuck Hawks' writes the 147gr 9mm ammo is useless for self defense. He recommends anything else but 147gr ammo. Hickok45 says he shoots nothing but 147 gr. ammo. Is this THAT big of a deal?
9mm 147 gr. ammo. Good or bad?
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Erich
Member
IIRC, Mas says there appears to be a difference between the dismal performance of the original 147-grainers released in the late '80s and the better performance of those released since the late '90s. I'll tell you one thing - a lot of 147-grain ammo seems to be very accurate from many of my guns.
Some people believe that a 147gr HP lacks the velocity needed to reliably expand, and they feel that a 124gr has enough to expand.
Personally I carry 147gr Win T-Series, although I am switching to 124gr+P Speer Gold Dots in my 9mms.
I feel like the 147gr would be completely adequate for Self Defense, as I am of the crowd of 'a bullet is a bullet, regardless of caliber.'
I am switching to the 124gr only because I have a local source where I can get them for a better price, and I cast and load and mainly shoot 124gr, so I figure I'll keep the weights the same across the board.
Personally I carry 147gr Win T-Series, although I am switching to 124gr+P Speer Gold Dots in my 9mms.
I feel like the 147gr would be completely adequate for Self Defense, as I am of the crowd of 'a bullet is a bullet, regardless of caliber.'
I am switching to the 124gr only because I have a local source where I can get them for a better price, and I cast and load and mainly shoot 124gr, so I figure I'll keep the weights the same across the board.
HeloMt
SWCA Member
Back in the late 90's, our agency ran the full FBI protocol with both the 147gr Black Talon and Speer Gold Dot. Both were extremely reliable performers, regardless of the test media utilized. These bullets are both constructed as premium defensive ammunition. Both were also wonderfully accurate, as Erich indicated the 147's are. We did experience several officer involved shootings with the 147's and performance was never an issue.
I firmly believe in two hallmarks: a well constructed bullet and accurate placement. I personally think most of the rest of it is people trying to sell you something.
I firmly believe in two hallmarks: a well constructed bullet and accurate placement. I personally think most of the rest of it is people trying to sell you something.
The (very) early 147 gr 9mm was intended to stay subsonic while fired through suppressed submachine guns. When fired in the much shorter barrels of pistols.....it left something to be desired.
As pointed out, bullet design has come a long way. As have the loads. Federal Hydra-Shoks were the most accurate 9mm I've ever fired and hit exactly where my night sights were. That is, a wee bit low from more traditional ammo. They also behaved exactly like the ads said they would in tissue simulant and were just a tad under the 1000 fps claimed.
Despite the fact that bullet placement is more important than what the bullet is, my personal preference is for something lighter and faster. I just prefer something else.
As pointed out, bullet design has come a long way. As have the loads. Federal Hydra-Shoks were the most accurate 9mm I've ever fired and hit exactly where my night sights were. That is, a wee bit low from more traditional ammo. They also behaved exactly like the ads said they would in tissue simulant and were just a tad under the 1000 fps claimed.
Despite the fact that bullet placement is more important than what the bullet is, my personal preference is for something lighter and faster. I just prefer something else.
147gr Bullets
I shoot 147gr bullets out of my 5904 because they hit closer to the POA of my fixed sights. I carry the 147gr Winchester Ranger T-Series rounds daily. I agree with what the others are saying here. Bullet design and construction has come a long way. In my opinion, being hit center mass with a Talon, Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, Hydra-Shok, etc. would cause the bad guy to have a very bad day.
I shoot 147gr bullets out of my 5904 because they hit closer to the POA of my fixed sights. I carry the 147gr Winchester Ranger T-Series rounds daily. I agree with what the others are saying here. Bullet design and construction has come a long way. In my opinion, being hit center mass with a Talon, Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, Hydra-Shok, etc. would cause the bad guy to have a very bad day.
When they first came out with the 147gr 9mm, my old partner said that they just reinvented the 9mm into a semi-auto 38+P.
I can't disagree with his conclusion. However, I don't have a problem with a 38+P that holds more than a dozen rounds.
I can't disagree with his conclusion. However, I don't have a problem with a 38+P that holds more than a dozen rounds.
David Sinko
Member
The problem is nowadays too many people are paranoid about "over penetration." Too many people want you to believe that heavy bullets with any kind of real velocity are a bad thing. As such, too many 147 gr. loadings are watered down to the point where they don't perform well. There's no reason a good 147 gr. jacketed bullet can't be loaded to 1100+ FPS in any service grade semiauto pistol.
Dave Sinko
Dave Sinko
ronnie gore
Member
147 grain
well as i always told the younger officers, there is no magic bullet, it is shot placement. one of our officers shot a guy twice with the 147 grain black talons, neither bullet expanded but the suspect died on the scene anyway.
well as i always told the younger officers, there is no magic bullet, it is shot placement. one of our officers shot a guy twice with the 147 grain black talons, neither bullet expanded but the suspect died on the scene anyway.
Josh M.
Member
Don't put too much weight on anything Chuck Hawks says...he regurgitates a lot of Internet rumors as fact.
Andy Griffith
Member
MOONDAWG;135972667 Boys-n-girls their ain't no magic bullets...they all work when placed where they need to go...[/QUOTE said:
The 147 gr I shot in my P-89 were accurate so I would call them good. That gun is long gone and I have never run them through the current CZ. In the 9 I would go with something that groups well enough to give you confidence and practice enough to sustain that confidence.
stiab
US Veteran
That's correct, and he has a grudge against S&W, for some reason. There are hundreds of people on this forum that are just as knowledgable as him, or moreso, but just don't choose to have their own space on the internet to launch 'articles' from.
remat457
Member
Do you shoot it accurately and it functions reliably in your pistol? Can you get enough of it to know? Those are the big questions for me.
It's funny, but the they light and fast crowd claims that 147gr are ineffective, while the heavy and slow crowd claim that 115gr don't work.
Local PD's out here (West Coast) have been using heavy bullets just fine, while light bullets like 9bple has worked just as well for LE (East Coast) over the years. Maybe it's a East vs West Coast thing. Of course, there is always middle the road for those that are undecided
Locally, 147gr is less popular in the retail shops so I can always find it. It feeds and shoots straight. That's good enough for me!
It's funny, but the they light and fast crowd claims that 147gr are ineffective, while the heavy and slow crowd claim that 115gr don't work.
Local PD's out here (West Coast) have been using heavy bullets just fine, while light bullets like 9bple has worked just as well for LE (East Coast) over the years. Maybe it's a East vs West Coast thing. Of course, there is always middle the road for those that are undecided
Locally, 147gr is less popular in the retail shops so I can always find it. It feeds and shoots straight. That's good enough for me!
I was going to ask who the heck is Chuck Hawks , but instead I went to his website. All I'll say is, he should stick to quantum physics. IMO!
9mm 147gr. ammo. Good or bad?
Hello,
My former department, LAPD has used Winchester 147 gr. Ranger ammo for a number of years. I've been retired about 5 years now, but my understanding is the above load does well in field shooting, providing of course the shooter does their part!
Regards, John Helms
Hello,
My former department, LAPD has used Winchester 147 gr. Ranger ammo for a number of years. I've been retired about 5 years now, but my understanding is the above load does well in field shooting, providing of course the shooter does their part!
Regards, John Helms
