9mm hardcast?

[cowboy94916]

Last time I reloaded 9mm it was with 124/125 gr Hard cast LRN with 4.0 gr of bullseye and ww small pistol 5000 rounds. Had some hs-7 leftover and used 6.3 gr to load some old military brass about a 1000. Having shot that all up. Resorted to shooting factory til I get the ambition to reload. I have been thinking of trying to make some 147 gr., its all my son shoots. Any hints on loads with ww primers and that bullet woud be appreciated. I have a varity of powders available.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

S&S CASTING HAS THE BULLETS
WINCHESTER WSF POWDER 3.7 TO 4.1 GR

 

[Daddy]

I have shot right through both sides of a steel 55 gallon drum (empty) with the 121 grain Lyman 356402 hard cast bullet and these were not even full power loads. That is plenty of penetration for any flesh and blood target.

I might add I recently watched an interview with a Big Game guide who killed a grizzly bear with a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol using only factory ammo with 125 grain bullets.

Remember also that hot loads with overweight bullets are very hard on a semi-auto pistol. I have seen some pistols crack their frames and in the case of the German Luger crack the breach block.

Lyman 356402 bullet:

S&S CASTING HAS THE BULLETS
WINCHESTER WSF POWDER 3.7 TO 4.1 GR

Not familiar with S&S. I'll have to check them out.

 

[bedwards]

I second the Lyman 356402. No problems cast from wheel weights. I have several different 9mm guns and it feeds really well with no leading.

 

[roysha]

I cast my 9MM bullets using 19 pounds of COWW and 1 pound of foundry type simply because I came across a large quantity of the latter at a very good price. (free) Normally I use a 125 grain TC style bullet but for grins and such I wanted to try some of the LEE 356-147-TC bullets.
I wanted to examine some fired bullets to see if there was anything unusual going on and just because I wanted some samples of fired bullets from my P-226 to compare to my 125 gr. bullets.
I had a 15-gallon grease drum that I ran 18" of water into, assuming that would surely stop the bullets. (it does on TV, right?) I covered the top of the drum with a feed sack, didn't want to get drenched, climbed up on the corral fence and fired 5 shots directly down into the drum from, perhaps 4 feet above the water. When I went to dump the water, I discovered 5 holes in the bottom of the drum. Those bullets had not only penetrated the 18" of water but, another 4-6" of dirt under the drum. Needless to say, my bullets were not what I wanted because the dirt had scuffed them too badly to compare to the 125s.
My SIG just didn't like that heavy bullet so after a couple hundred or so I parked the mold on the shelf with the other 50 or so molds I seldom use, tossed the 147s into the pot and turned them into 125s.
I have tried the SWC style bullets in my autoloaders with mixed results as far as reliability goes. To me that is NOT acceptable, ergo the TC style bullet.

 

[Riposte1]

I haven't cast bullets in a while but I have a Lyman 133 gr SWC mold that has a nice meplat - I still have some bullets I cast from that mold.

They aren't exactly "heavy" but they are accurate. I have also shot that bullet in an 8" .357 to 1750 fps.

Cheers

Riposte

 

[Daddy]

I cast my 9MM bullets using 19 pounds of COWW and 1 pound of foundry type simply because I came across a large quantity of the latter at a very good price. (free) Normally I use a 125 grain TC style bullet but for grins and such I wanted to try some of the LEE 356-147-TC bullets.
I wanted to examine some fired bullets to see if there was anything unusual going on and just because I wanted some samples of fired bullets from my P-226 to compare to my 125 gr. bullets.
I had a 15-gallon grease drum that I ran 18" of water into, assuming that would surely stop the bullets. (it does on TV, right?) I covered the top of the drum with a feed sack, didn't want to get drenched, climbed up on the corral fence and fired 5 shots directly down into the drum from, perhaps 4 feet above the water. When I went to dump the water, I discovered 5 holes in the bottom of the drum. Those bullets had not only penetrated the 18" of water but, another 4-6" of dirt under the drum. Needless to say, my bullets were not what I wanted because the dirt had scuffed them too badly to compare to the 125s.
My SIG just didn't like that heavy bullet so after a couple hundred or so I parked the mold on the shelf with the other 50 or so molds I seldom use, tossed the 147s into the pot and turned them into 125s.
I have tried the SWC style bullets in my autoloaders with mixed results as far as reliability goes. To me that is NOT acceptable, ergo the TC style bullet.

Good to know. Thank you.

 

[Forrest r]

I have shot right through both sides of a steel 55 gallon drum (empty) with the 121 grain Lyman 356402 hard cast bullet and these were not even full power loads. That is plenty of penetration for any flesh and blood target.

I might add I recently watched an interview with a Big Game guide who killed a grizzly bear with a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol using only factory ammo with 125 grain bullets.

Remember also that hot loads with overweight bullets are very hard on a semi-auto pistol. I have seen some pistols crack their frames and in the case of the German Luger crack the breach block.

Lyman 356402 bullet:

View attachment 776197

Lyman was selling that mold in 1929

 

[glenwolde]

I've loaded and shot the 150gr Keith style SWC's. Like the RCBS-150-KT. They work fine, but I have a Springfield 1911 with a ramped barrel that feeds everything and will accommodate any length that will fit in the magazine.

But I've come to prefer the Lee-147-TC. With 4.0gr of CFE pistol and sized to .357 it shoots the lights out. I've found the larger you can size them the better they shoot but .358 starts to get problematic with chambering in some guns/brass so I've settled on .357. I sort my brass by foreign/domestic.

 

[rockquarry]

Lyman was selling that mold in 1929

I have shot right through both sides of a steel 55 gallon drum (empty) with the 121 grain Lyman 356402 hard cast bullet and these were not even full power loads. That is plenty of penetration for any flesh and blood target.

I might add I recently watched an interview with a Big Game guide who killed a grizzly bear with a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol using only factory ammo with 125 grain bullets.

Remember also that hot loads with overweight bullets are very hard on a semi-auto pistol. I have seen some pistols crack their frames and in the case of the German Luger crack the breach block.

Lyman 356402 bullet:

View attachment 776197

I may be very wrong as I've seldom shot at hard surfaces, but a 55 gallon drum is made of pretty thin steel. I figured most handgun bullets (except the real puny ones like .25s and .32s) would easily penetrate both sides. Perhaps I'm wrong. Have others tried this? I'm curious. I'm not looking to argue as I have no fact basis to do so.

 

[Warren Sear]

I cast my 9MM bullets using 19 pounds of COWW and 1 pound of foundry type simply because I came across a large quantity of the latter at a very good price. (free) Normally I use a 125 grain TC style bullet but for grins and such I wanted to try some of the LEE 356-147-TC bullets.
I wanted to examine some fired bullets to see if there was anything unusual going on and just because I wanted some samples of fired bullets from my P-226 to compare to my 125 gr. bullets.
I had a 15-gallon grease drum that I ran 18" of water into, assuming that would surely stop the bullets. (it does on TV, right?) I covered the top of the drum with a feed sack, didn't want to get drenched, climbed up on the corral fence and fired 5 shots directly down into the drum from, perhaps 4 feet above the water. When I went to dump the water, I discovered 5 holes in the bottom of the drum. Those bullets had not only penetrated the 18" of water but, another 4-6" of dirt under the drum. Needless to say, my bullets were not what I wanted because the dirt had scuffed them too badly to compare to the 125s.
My SIG just didn't like that heavy bullet so after a couple hundred or so I parked the mold on the shelf with the other 50 or so molds I seldom use, tossed the 147s into the pot and turned them into 125s.
I have tried the SWC style bullets in my autoloaders with mixed results as far as reliability goes. To me that is NOT acceptable, ergo the TC style bullet.

Excellent post and information. I have used 158 grain cast bullets in 9mm in the 1980s before 147 grain bullets became popular. These were cast from an old Lyman round-nose mold. The ammo was sub-sonic, which is what I wanted. They functioned reliably in my Uzi carbine.

I was never happy or comfortable using heavyweight (above 125 grain) bullets in 9mm pistols, and don't understand why they are so popular right now.

I have a 6-cavity version of the Lee 147 grain TC bullet that you mentioned. It is fantastic, and casts perfect bullets easily and quickly. I don't use it for 9mm, though; I use it only in full powered 38 Super loads. That makes a perfect combination.

I save the SWC bullets for revolvers, but I have thought about using the 147 grain TC, sized to .538, for my .38 and .357 caliber revolvers.

The picture of the two cartridges shows a 38 Super on the left loaded with the LEE 147 gr TC bullet, and a 9mm loaded with a LEE 120 gr TC bullet. The pistol is a .38 Super caliber Colt Government Model I bought new about two years ago.

 

[Forrest r]

I may be very wrong as I've seldom shot at hard surfaces, but a 55 gallon drum is made of pretty thin steel. I figured most handgun bullets (except the real puny ones like .25s and .32s) would easily penetrate both sides. Perhaps I'm wrong. Have others tried this? I'm curious. I'm not looking to argue as I have no fact basis to do so.

Used to shoot holes in burn barrels (55 gallon drums) with mild loads in the 38spl's/snubnoses +/- 700fps swc's and rn cast bullets.

 

[rockquarry]

Used to shoot holes in burn barrels (55 gallon drums) with mild loads in the 38spl's/snubnoses +/- 700fps swc's and rn cast bullets.

Sort of what I thought, but I've not tried it. Soft cast bullet or hard cast bullet, I doubt you'd see much difference in penetration unless you're shooting at something like thick steel. Again, that's a guess.

 

[Daddy]

I've loaded and shot the 150gr Keith style SWC's. Like the RCBS-150-KT. They work fine, but I have a Springfield 1911 with a ramped barrel that feeds everything and will accommodate any length that will fit in the magazine.

But I've come to prefer the Lee-147-TC. With 4.0gr of CFE pistol and sized to .357 it shoots the lights out. I've found the larger you can size them the better they shoot but .358 starts to get problematic with chambering in some guns/brass so I've settled on .357. I sort my brass by foreign/domestic.

I've loaded and shot the 150gr Keith style SWC's. Like the RCBS-150-KT. They work fine, but I have a Springfield 1911 with a ramped barrel that feeds everything and will accommodate any length that will fit in the magazine.

But I've come to prefer the Lee-147-TC. With 4.0gr of CFE pistol and sized to .357 it shoots the lights out. I've found the larger you can size them the better they shoot but .358 starts to get problematic with chambering in some guns/brass so I've settled on .357. I sort my brass by foreign/domestic.

What velocity are you getting with CFE?

 

[Riposte1]

Sort of what I thought, but I've not tried it. Soft cast bullet or hard cast bullet, I doubt you'd see much difference in penetration unless you're shooting at something like thick steel. Again, that's a guess.

Yep, I use 55 gallon drums as burn barrels, standard .45 ball goes right through both sides. I may have shot some with a .22, can't remember if they got through both sides?

As an aside a big city LEO who shot with us said standard Winchester 115gr 9mm ball would not penetrate one of their city dumpsters, but that Geco Ball, 124 would penetrate one side. I suspect dumpsters come in different thicknesses and I have no idea what those were.

Riposte

 

[Warren Sear]

I remember how disappointed I was in the early 80s when I took my first 45 Auto, a Colt Series 70 (the real ones) out to my uncle's farm. Out in the woods there was an early 50's Pontiac. I let fly with a magazine full of 230 grain FMJ factory-loaded ammo, expecting to perhaps blow the car in two!

I was stunned when the 45 would not reliably penetrate the doors! A few bullets made it through, but the rest didn't.

9mm, on the other hand, would sail through the doors with ease.

Lesson noted.

 

[rockquarry]

I remember how disappointed I was in the early 80s when I took my first 45 Auto, a Colt Series 70 (the real ones) out to my uncle's farm. Out in the woods there was an early 50's Pontiac. I let fly with a magazine full of 230 grain FMJ factory-loaded ammo, expecting to perhaps blow the car in two!

I was stunned when the 45 would not reliably penetrate the doors! A few bullets made it through, but the rest didn't.

9mm, on the other hand, would sail through the doors with ease.

Lesson noted.

Those old cars had some metal in them and it wasn't paper thin.

 

[Forrest r]

I remember how disappointed I was in the early 80s when I took my first 45 Auto, a Colt Series 70 (the real ones) out to my uncle's farm. Out in the woods there was an early 50's Pontiac. I let fly with a magazine full of 230 grain FMJ factory-loaded ammo, expecting to perhaps blow the car in two!

I was stunned when the 45 would not reliably penetrate the doors! A few bullets made it through, but the rest didn't.

9mm, on the other hand, would sail through the doors with ease.

Lesson noted.

People should keep that in mind when using the highly regarded wc/hbwc's in the snubnosed 38spl's. Those bullets hold their own on soft targets. When they hit anything harder, things go south. A 148gr home cast hbwc (8/9bhn) shot @ 25ft with a 800fps load.

Was playing around on the bowling pin table with a s&w model 10 ppc revolver. Excellent hit on the trademark, hitting the pins there drives them strait back. But that's also solid maple in that area & will stop most slow moving bullets. What that cast 148gr hbwc looked like after digging it out of that pin pictured above.

 

[Riposte1]

I remember how disappointed I was in the early 80s when I took my first 45 Auto, a Colt Series 70 (the real ones) out to my uncle's farm. Out in the woods there was an early 50's Pontiac. I let fly with a magazine full of 230 grain FMJ factory-loaded ammo, expecting to perhaps blow the car in two!

I was stunned when the 45 would not reliably penetrate the doors! A few bullets made it through, but the rest didn't.

9mm, on the other hand, would sail through the doors with ease.

Lesson noted.

Cars doors are problematical, due to all the mechanisms in them and then of course the thickness of the skin. I was blessed to have several informal junk yards near where I shoot. We took a door from a newere Oldsmobile to a class whe did in AR and one of the students shot it with the M1A squad scout - 150 gr. FMJ - it did not make it through!

I've shot everything from the 1950s thru the early 2000's. My biggest dissapointment was I got a 5.5" .357 magnum for Christmas once and could not find a store with ammo open - finally I found a box of Remington Metal Piercing at a bait shop.

I took the gun to my Mother in Laws and there was a an old iron (not that old it was electric) out in her dump - I shot that iron and the bullet completely bounced off leaving a small dent. I was disapointed - so I shot it with my 16 gauge for which I had a bunch of Foster slugs - the iron disintegrated!

Much later I took a class with Bank Miller in TX. He had arragned to have a 2002 Ford Taurus put on the range - he first had a few of the students demo shooting the hood with a target close to the back fender - we shot it with 9mm, .40 and .45 and every one of them bounced off and hit the target in the neck or head - the demo was to encourange peopl not to shoot over cover or if they do stay back at least 2 yards.

The next demo we shot a 9mm (in this case it was a TX LEO shooting his 124 gr. Bonded duty load) at a target in the drivers seat. The POA was the chest - the 9mm hit the head and stopped in the head rest. The .40 didn't fare any better. I happened to be shooting Federal M1911 Match ball (230 gr) My bullet hit the top of A-zone (IPSC Target) went through the seat, went through the back seat and the X brace, and exited out the roll back bumper - Bank made the comment "that bullet is likely still going" Then again he is a fan of .45, he has taught a couple of SWAT Classes at the Live-fire Shoot House I used to have charge of - he told the students that in his experience at close range a .45 FMJ was supperior to 5.56 in effectiveness on bad guys.

Cheers

Riposte