9mm +P in a BHP

[Seven High]

In the latest edition of the American Rifleman there is an article about the Tisas hi power. The author states that +p ammunition should not be used in it. Has anyone noticed damage from using +p ammunition in their older bhp or Tisas? Where would damage be apparent? If a stronger recoil spring was installed, would +p ammunition then be o.k.?

 

[stansdds]

I'll refer you to Stephen Camp's site, specifically the page where he discusses the Hi-Power and higher pressure ammo.

The Browning Hi Power and 9mm

The Hi-Power is not a weak pistol, but you do have to use the right hammer and recoil springs, especially with higher pressure ammo. Any firearm will show accelerated wear when hotter ammo is used, it's a simple fact. If nothing else, the barrel bore will erode faster. With a 32 pound hammer spring, which seems to have become the standard in the Hi-Power design, and a 18 1/2 pound recoil spring, you should be ok. You might consider a recoil buffer, at least for practice, but I don't like those things in a pistol that I would use for any type of defensive purpose.

 

[Justin T]

Agreed on a bog standard steel HP. On the other hand, the Tisas offering is stainless, isn’t it? Does that change the equation at all?

 

[WR Moore]

It's difficult to say without comparing the physical properties of the respective alloys. It's safest to assume there would be no change.

 

[pharmer]

Do you really need that extra 100-150 fps? Would an assailant be deader if hit at 1200 fps instead of 1100? On the other hand a former pope absorbed a full mag from a HiPower and went on to ski at Zermatt. Joe

 

[murphydog]

My recollection is earlier BHPs tended to crack slides with heavy use of higher pressure ammo (like 9 mm NATO), and later ones were less likely to do so. Agree finding a standard pressure expanding load with a good reputation is a perfectly satisfactory path of action.

 

[OLDSTER]

Why would you even consider shooting +P in a Hi Power ( especially genuine Belgium) if there is a question. ?? I'm curious. I certainly wouldn't shoot it in my 1967 "T" series.

 

[OIF2]

The later, MK III cast-frame pistols will handle +P ammo. The cast frame was initially introduced in the .40 caL BHP due to higher pressures. 9mms were later produced with cast frames to simplify production.

Most wear will come on the barrel lugs and slide. No need to shoot +P constantly. It doesn't take much to kill a paper target. Shoot standard pressure stuff for practice and load up +Ps for serious work. Too easy.
Bob

 

[HardToHandle]

Certainly many of us have heard and read reports of . 40S&W High Powers having frame battering issues. I recall warnings 20 years ago to avoid GECO and IMI Uzi ammunition even in newer frames.

My 9mm High Power has no evidence of stress damage, but I never recall ever shooting +P ammo in it. To me, excessive stress beyond the 1920’s Parabellum chamber pressures and velocity is not necessary.

These days, +P seems to be only a real niche topic, such as armor piercing. Modern bonded hollow points have great performance at standard velocities for the last 15-20 years. I thought most police departments stepped away from +Ps in the late 90’s. Unless you have 10,000 rounds of old +P ammo, why risk damage and the need to regularly cycle springs?

 

[ContinentalOp]

I wonder if the recommendation against using +P came from the same era that said to only load Hi-Powers with 12 rounds in the mag instead of 13.

I'm inclined to go with Stephen Camp's recommendation for a heavier recoil spring if you're going to shoot +P, as well as changing them more frequently. Like I do with my snubs, you could always run enough +P through your gun to make sure they're reliable and that you can shoot them well, then do the bulk of your shooting with standard pressure loads.

But I also don't see the need for +P in 9mm given the availability of good quality standard pressure SD ammo, especially in a gun that seems to have mixed recommendations regarding +P ammo. FWIW, I use Federal standard pressure 147gr HST in my PX4 Compact and 92FS. I would have no qualms using it in a Hi-Power, presuming it was reliable and shot well.

But to each his own. You'll probably minimize the probability of issues by following Camp's recommendations. You may get some accelerated wear issues, but you'd probably have to shoot a lot of +P to get to that point.

 

[biku324]

I guess I should read more...I bought my 40 High Power MkIII in '94, qualified with it 4x annually, used it in SRT training and incidents for 10 years with no more than cosmetic wear. I still shoot a few hundred rounds a year with no trouble, 180 grain reloads exclusively.

If only I'd have read more I'd have known that wasn't possible.

 

[Kurusu]

As far as I know BHPs are rated for NATO 9mm loading. And that's sort of +P load, I think. Anything above that, doesn't sound like a good ideia. In any semi auto pistol.

The funtion of the recoil spring, in a JMB tilting barrel design, is essentially to close back the action. It's the mainspring that's supposed to absorb recoil.

 

[LVSteve]

An ex UK Army guy I knew was trained in close protection duties. He said they used Sigs because the Hi Powers would have worn out by the time they completed the training. Apparently they trained with thousands of rounds doing mostly point shooting. Now, unless some idiot in the UK supply chain had given them L7A1 9mm, it suggests that the Hi Power clapped out on NATO fodder.

Mind you, an ex UK RAF type told me the one time he fired a Hi Power its accuracy was so poor he had a better chance of disabling the enemy by throwing the gun. Makes me think that the RAF armourers weren't looking after business.

 

[dr. mordo]

I bought a very used FN Hi Power Mk II a couple of years back a few days before they were discontinued. I installed a 18.5 lb main spring and a buffer (as per Camp's recommendation) and have fired several hundred rounds of standard 9mm with not a single malfunction, as well as ~200 Federal 9BPLE +P+ which functioned fine and had no significant frame battering. 9BPLE is what I carry in it every day - it's on my hip right now. I also have a Mk III, but so far I haven't warmed up to it as much as my Mk II.

 

[LVSteve]

I bought a very used FN Hi Power Mk II a couple of years back ....

You want "very used", you should see the FEG I own. The frame/slide fit is so hysterically bad that the right rear lifts as you pull the trigger. Doesn't seem to affect the accuracy much.

 

[Protected One]

BHP has almost a 5" barrel which allows more powder to burn, thus increasing the velocity of each round fired. Frankly, I don't see the need for +p ammo in a High Power

 

[Sistema1927]

I regularly shoot +P in a MkIII, Tisas BR9SS, and FEG. I do have 18.5 lb. recoil springs in all of them.

Like all guns, +P will accelerate wear, but I bought my pistols to shoot, and doubt that thye will wear out before I do.

 

[Ματθιας]

We've been seeing Israeli surplus HiPowers for years and it's very rare to read about someone getting a worn out piece on any of the forums. There have been some beaters! I wonder what spec 9mm they use I'll bet it's a bit hotter than any of anemic commercial 9mm we see.

BTW what is the spec for 9mm NATO?

 

[Hapworth]

I guess I should read more...I bought my 40 High Power MkIII in '94, qualified with it 4x annually, used it in SRT training and incidents for 10 years with no more than cosmetic wear. I still shoot a few hundred rounds a year with no trouble, 180 grain reloads exclusively.

If only I'd have read more I'd have known that wasn't possible.

Keep reading -- you'll find that your .40 HP has a cast frame and that's why it's held up.

 

[LVSteve]

SAAMI 35k PSI
SAAMI +P 36k PSI
NATO 36.5k PSI

Latest US Army M1152 and M1153 - 39,700 p.s.i.

Crazy British L7A1 for subguns - guesses range from 39 to 50k.