9mm vs 40 s&w
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roundgunner
US Veteran
The 40S&W is a fast climing star, to me its close to the power of a 45, with the Mag capacity of a 9mm, it is very popular around here.
ab4ka
Member
That's why I bought an M&P40 instead of an M&P9....40S&W seems to be much easier to come by around here.
tom turner
US Veteran
It is the most popular "cop caliber" right now, and I think the ammo makers are cranking a lot more of it out knowing its popularity and demand.
USAF385
US Veteran
.40 for me! I only touch 9mm for plinking.
kilroy2721
Member
It is a very popular round. Everyone should have a couple of them.
Hook686
US Veteran
9mm, .357 Sig, .40S&W, .45acp .... they all seem pretty much the same.
Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads - M4Carbine.net Forums
Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads - M4Carbine.net Forums
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aterry33
Member
With GOOD ammo, they are very similar. Some people I have enormous respect for (such as Ken Hackathorn) have said that when using good ammunition, there is not much practical difference between 9mm and 40S&W. My CCW is a Glock 19 with Speer Gold Dot 124+P 9mm. I do not feel underpowered.
LEOs may prefer the 40S&W for a little bit of extra power. I respect that. But consider that the Charlotte, NC, swat team where I live went from 40S&W to 45ACP because the 40 was overpenetrating. Maybe that's one of the reasons I stick with the 124GR 9mm. I have also heard cops complain that the 45ACP does not penetrate vehicles well enough, as well as complaints that the .357 SIG overpenetrates in most situations. I have heard numerous experts argue that the .357 SIG is not a good civilian self defense round for that reason.
But to answer your original question... The Glock 22 has become the Smith&Wesson Model 10 of modern-day law enforcement. The FBI adopted it and the 40S&W and everyone else has jumped on the bandwagon. That's why you see tons of glocks and 40S&W pistols out there now. I do not like S&W autos, even though I love my revolvers dearly. I would choose glock, then SIG, then HK, and then S&W in autos.
LEOs may prefer the 40S&W for a little bit of extra power. I respect that. But consider that the Charlotte, NC, swat team where I live went from 40S&W to 45ACP because the 40 was overpenetrating. Maybe that's one of the reasons I stick with the 124GR 9mm. I have also heard cops complain that the 45ACP does not penetrate vehicles well enough, as well as complaints that the .357 SIG overpenetrates in most situations. I have heard numerous experts argue that the .357 SIG is not a good civilian self defense round for that reason.
But to answer your original question... The Glock 22 has become the Smith&Wesson Model 10 of modern-day law enforcement. The FBI adopted it and the 40S&W and everyone else has jumped on the bandwagon. That's why you see tons of glocks and 40S&W pistols out there now. I do not like S&W autos, even though I love my revolvers dearly. I would choose glock, then SIG, then HK, and then S&W in autos.
flop-shank
US Veteran
As soon as people start generalizing penetration depths along caliber lines, I generally figure that they really don't know what they're talking about (I'm not accusing you of doing so, aterry). Penetrative qualities are based on bullet weight, velocity, design/construction and caliber. Caliber is only one part of the equation.
BigRich315
Member
Nobody uses .40 anymore, it's obsolete. I can give you an address to send it to for proper disposal
(somebody had to say it
)
I really like .40, it's a great mid-ground caliber for all of the reasons already mentioned. Any "good" modern round will do its job, but there are no "bad" .40 rounds (within reason). But YMMV.
(somebody had to say it)I really like .40, it's a great mid-ground caliber for all of the reasons already mentioned. Any "good" modern round will do its job, but there are no "bad" .40 rounds (within reason). But YMMV.
David Sinko
Member
You can find lame performance from every handgun caliber under the sun. It all depends on the construction of the bullet and the velocity. The problem is when the ammo makers think that they have developed the newest magic bullet and think that is a reason to reduce the velocity.
I do not believe that the .40 S&W is significantly better than the 9mm. It operates at a high pressure and still lacks velocity. It is an embarassment compared to the original 10mm Auto. And modern .45 ACP +P loadings will handily beat it for velocity, and with a wider bullet that makes a bigger hole.
Dave Sinko
I do not believe that the .40 S&W is significantly better than the 9mm. It operates at a high pressure and still lacks velocity. It is an embarassment compared to the original 10mm Auto. And modern .45 ACP +P loadings will handily beat it for velocity, and with a wider bullet that makes a bigger hole.
Dave Sinko
38-44HD45
Absent Comrade
I have recently begun a massive cleanup of my reloading and ammo storage areas. While doing so, I found two big coffee cans of picked up range brass, of mixed sizes, from way back when. Lots of 9x19, some .40S&W and a good bit of .45 ACP, with just enough .38 Super and .380 mixed in to make sorting interesting. It struck me that there just is not that much difference in the diameters of 9mm brass and .40 brass, at least compared to .45. 9mm brass will stick tightly inside .40, while .40 rattles around in .45 and falls out easily. I know; who cares? Well, I think it just points to what Dave said, i.e., there's just not that much difference. I own .40s, but in recent years, have decided that they don't offer me much over my 9x19 guns, except about two rounds less magazine capacity. Love my 10mms; love my 9x23s even more; even love my .45s. Like my 9x19s and .40s okay...
T1
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Consider this quote from wikipedia
(40 S&W)
"while possessing nearly identical accuracy,drift and drop, it adds almost 50 percent more energy over the 9 mm Parabellum with a more manageable recoil than the 10 mm Auto cartridge.[16] With good JHP bullets in the more energetic loads (> 500 ft•lbf) the .40 S&W can create hydrostatic shock in human-sized living targets. [17][18]
The .40 S&W has been called “the ideal cartridge for personal defense and law enforcement,” and a ”lot more than a 9mm.”The energy of the .40 S&W exceeds standard-pressure 9x19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP loadings, generating between 350 and 500 foot-pounds of energy, depending on bullet weight. Both the .40 S&W and the 9 mm Parabellum operate at a 35,000 psi (240 MPa) SAAMI maximum, compared to a 21,000 psi (150 MPa) maximum for .45 ACP"
I do agree the specific bullet makes the difference. People have also been killed by .22, so I figure with it's speed and weight, any of the candidates are effective.
(40 S&W)
"while possessing nearly identical accuracy,drift and drop, it adds almost 50 percent more energy over the 9 mm Parabellum with a more manageable recoil than the 10 mm Auto cartridge.[16] With good JHP bullets in the more energetic loads (> 500 ft•lbf) the .40 S&W can create hydrostatic shock in human-sized living targets. [17][18]
The .40 S&W has been called “the ideal cartridge for personal defense and law enforcement,” and a ”lot more than a 9mm.”The energy of the .40 S&W exceeds standard-pressure 9x19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP loadings, generating between 350 and 500 foot-pounds of energy, depending on bullet weight. Both the .40 S&W and the 9 mm Parabellum operate at a 35,000 psi (240 MPa) SAAMI maximum, compared to a 21,000 psi (150 MPa) maximum for .45 ACP"
I do agree the specific bullet makes the difference. People have also been killed by .22, so I figure with it's speed and weight, any of the candidates are effective.
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Evil One
Member
Energy and "hydrostatic shock" are meaningless in service caliber pistols. Momentum (penetration potential), and expansion are what makes a good service round.
Service pistols are hole punchers, and effective holes can be generated with all the service calibers. A 9mm 147 gr. Ranger-T will create a wound path very similar to a 357 sig 125 gr. Ranger-T.
The .40 and .45 have the potential to expand to a slightly larger diameter (measureable in the hundreths of an inch), so it's possible they could be more effective individually.
The 9mm however is more shootable than the other 3, so basically they are all good, or all bad depending on which way you look at it.
I think the .40, and .45 can be much more effective when quality ammo is not available.
I consolidated to 9mm/.38 cal. for SD because that is what I shoot well. My buddy shoots a 1911 better than anything, so he is a .45 guy. Who is more lethal? me with 16 rounds of 9mm 147 gr. Ranger-T, or him with 8 round of .45 230 gr. Federal. It's an unanswerable question.
Knightrider03m
Member
IMO, the .40 is WAY to overrated and its over price (ammo wise). You will only find a little bit more kick with out that much more work out of a .40. I'll take my 9mm over a .40 any day.
My guess is that the ammunition price increases of the past couple of years have definately hurt the popularity of the .40.
Sure, there are other reasons people prefer one cartridge over the other, but the fact that "practice" .40 ammunition costs roughly twice as much as "practice" 9mm ammunition (and just about as much as comparable .45 ammunition) has not helped the .40.
USAF385
US Veteran
At the gun shop I usually get my ammo, I get target 9mm for $13 for 50 and for .40, $17 for 50. Not sure about walmart because I gave up looking. .45s are around $23
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