A 10mm Glock question...

[Fishinfool]

I have been thinking about a Glock 10mm as a woods carry piece. I have a 1911 in 10mm, but want something lighter for bumming around in the woods when I am already weighed down with heavy camera gear.

My question is, how does this Glock, with its polygonal rifling handle hard cast bullets? I know lead is not recommended, but I have had excellent results in a 19 and 26 using slightly oversize, hard cast lead bullets. Will this carry over into the 10mm? My plan for this gun is strictly a 200 grain, full power, hard cast FN lead diet, maybe with a gas check, if needed.

Also, and comments on frame size? I am leaning towards the full size model, as weight, not size, is the consideration. I have big hands, and the extra barrel length will help with ballistics. Any comments or recommendations from those who have used one?

Thanks

Larry

 

[robertrwalsh]

Glock strongly recommends AGAINST lead bullets in their barrels. I have an aftermarket rifled barrel for each of my Glocks, a 9mm and a 10mm, just so I can shoot lead out of them comfortably. As long as you have big hands you will be happy with the gun. I carried one , a full-size Model 20, concealed for a couple of years and used it once. It did the job.

 

[ronnie gore]

10mm

I have a full size glock 10mm and I shoot my cast bullets in it without any problems, just can't hot rod it if you are shooting a lot, but if you are mostly carrying and not shooting the lead bullets load you can load them hotter as you won't shoot enough of them to cause much leading.
when loading target or practice loads I have zero problems, just clean out any leading you will get before shooting any jacketed high speed loads.
I was shooting lead in a first gen glock 17 for years before they said you should not.

 

[getoff]

i'm not an advocate for or against glock, but... its not true polygonal won't handle lead. a heavy diet is not recommended, but not gonna kill it or you. i shoot a butt load of "hard" cast through my 41 and it hasn't blown up, or failed. clean often, and you'll live, i'm pretty sure it's a neglect thing, or liability.

 

[VictorLouis]

Just don't forget to CLEAN your leaded barrel before trying to shoot some factory jacketed fodder through it. This is where Kb LIVES~!

 

[loc n load]

Glocks and lead bullets

This is an oft asked question.....there is an excellent "sticky" under the "Wheelguns,Pistols & handcannons" forum on the Cast boolits site......the sticky is "The truth about Glocks and cast".(it's at the top of the page)....I have been shooting Glocks since their introduction and my current EDC is a G-20.....I have shot cast thru the 20 ,21,22 and the 17....the sticky was enlightening to me (you will have to filter out some of the "white noise" which seems to accompany a lot of threads- but there is some useful information there)....perhaps it will be for you also.

 

[Oldherkpilot]

My only complaint about the Glock 10mms is that darn "smile" it leaves on the spent cases. I had an "event" (self-ejecting magazine in a Glock) with once-fired brass and now only use new or cases fired through my 1066. Since you obviously reload, I thought I ought to mention my reservation about the Glocks in that area. Good luck.

 

[OKFC05]

Two negative points:
1. Have you weighed the FULLY LOADED 10mm Glock full size and the 1911? Just how much weight are you saving?
2. I have a family member who decided to shoot lead in a stock Glock 10mm barrel, and found it is possible if you are a maniac about keeping it clean, but it can go from "a little fouled" to "dangerous" in one magazine. Uses only plated or jacketed bullets now.

 

[Arik]

Two negative points:
1. Have you weighed the FULLY LOADED 10mm Glock full size and the 1911? Just how much weight are you saving?
.

Why is that a negative? You almost double the ammo. To be completely fair load the glock with the same amount of rounds as in the 1911.

 

[Ματθιας]

I have a Gen2 G20. I don't know how much weight you'll be saving but 3 mags = 45 rounds - it might be worth the trade off.

I would recommend getting a rifled barrel for lead and not worry about any potential issues with the factory barrel. If you buy used replace the springs and do it regularly.

I have big hands and have no issues with the fame size.

 

[Arkie45]

My Gen3 is awesome with a 6" KKM barrel. Better case support, great accuracy, and is likes all bullets. 220 gr hard cast are deadly!

 

[Fishinfool]

Thanks for the responses guys.

The G20 is about 27.5 ounces, so about a 12 / 13 ounce savings from my steel frame 10mm 1911. Not earth shattering, but a reasonable difference, and enough to justify a new gun..

In the past, I have had good luck using lead in the Glock 9mm's, as long as they were sized properly, and hard, especially with gas checks. Soft lead at or slightly below bore diameter, would leave lead streaks. Based on others experience I have read, they generally state the same. So while I am confident I could reasonably use the loads I intend with the factory barrel, another problem I hear a lot about is lack of case support, especially with Generation 1 & 2 models, but with Generation 3 and 4 models as well. It is especially a consideration as I will be loading mostly to full SAAMI specs. for this particular gun.

The more I think about it, the smaller G29 would be a poor choice due to my hand size and the recoil involved. I have a hard enough time holding onto a subcompact Glock .45 acp. The longer G20 barrel length would also help velocity.

So, I am eying a G20, with an aftermarket Lone Wolf or KKM barrel. I typically carry a 4' 629 or 4 3/4' Super Blackhawk in bear / moose country, but figure the lighter weight, power, speed, higher capacity, and lack of worry about dings & scratches a good reason to try out a new toy.

Larry

 

[shocker]

I have a G29sf. Didn't have much success shooting lead with the polygonal barrel. Installed a storm lake and no leading problems with that one. Most of my loads are 3% under book maximum. 180 gr Penn Bullets and AA9.

 

[smutt]

I have a Gen 3 G20 that I carry in the woods. Lone Wolf barrel for cast bullets and sights changed to fiber optic, red in front, green in back. Also switched to a SF frame because it felt more comfortable. Carry it in a Safariland holster with the thumb lever release.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Avoid all the headache of leading in Glocks by using a coated bullet. SNS sells them ready to load. There are more and more places offering them but that's the last one I bought mine through. Or you can coat them yourself for a pretty low cost. And before yet another Star mouth breather has to chime in, yes, you can traditional lube and size faster and if you are spot on perfect with your lead alloy, lube hardness, bullet sizing, and cartridge pressure then leading should never be a problem. Or you can just try a coated bullet and eliminate most of that worry and get away with darn near the same thing as a jacketed bullet.

 

[mfoley]

I have a Gen 3 G20sf and a Gen 4 G29 both with KKM barrels.

I did load development using 180 grain Lasercast for practice and 200 grain WFNCG from DoubleTap for protection.

At first I had leading issues until I found the correct powder that gave the proper pressure level.

I use WC820 (AA#9 equivalent) for the 180s and IMR 800X for the 200s.

After developing the loads I put the stock glock barrels back in the guns and tested them for leading.

If I did not have leading in the KKM there was no leading in the stock barrel.

Having both sizes of the Glock 10MM I normally carry the G29. You can put the larger guns 15 round mags in it if you want more capacity.

I would go to a place that has both guns and see how they feel.

At first I thought that the pinkey finger overhang that you have on the G29 would be an issue. It is not.

Then Gen4 guns have the back straps that you can swap out to increase the size of the grip.

 

[thomasinaz]

I've had my 20C for several years, and used it for work for a couple of years. I dropped a Lone Wolf barrel in mine more for closing the compensator ports than for shooting lead bullets. The barrel works great with no reliability or accuracey issues. Put a $100 Lone Wolf barrel in your G20 and any lead bullet worries disappear. Cheap insurance from the dreaded kaboom monster.....

 

[MikeV]

Since you said "Hard cast" lead in the original post, it reminded me of the below statement on Buffalo Bore's website in regards to leading the Glock barrels:

True hard cast bullets (as opposed to lead swaged bullets) that are properly lubed will not lead foul polygonal barrels any more than any other type of rifled barrel. Ever since Glock Corporation warned to not use lead bullets in their pistols with polygonal barrels, a myth that hard cast bullets will lead foul polygonal barrels has become wide spread in some parts of the firearms world. However, the myth is untrue. Hard cast bullets are not "lead" bullets. (See my article on "Dangerous Pure Lead Cowboy Bullets")

Pure lead or nearly pure lead bullets have a tendency to foul any barrel, not just polygonal barrels. Years ago, when several Glock pistols experienced cracked barrels because of fouling build up from shooting pure lead bullets, Glock issued a warning not to shoot lead bullets in their polygonal barrels. From that warning, the myth that you should not shoot hard cast bullets in polygonal barrels was born.

Provided you use real hard cast bullets with good lube, you can shoot them all you like in polygonal barrels without causing lead fouling deposits at the front of your chamber or anywhere else in the barrel. If you are concerned about lead fouling from hard cast bullets, all you have to do is to clean your barrel after firing hard cast bullets and before firing any jacketed bullets. However, in my experience, quality hard cast bullets won't foul a Glock polygonal barrel or any other type of barrel but lead bullets normally will.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

I haven't personally tried their 10mm stuff, but their 220gr hard cast states, "Straight line penetration into living tissue will exceed three feet." Wow.

 

[Hans Gruber]

10mm

Polygonal rifling is not "ideal" for the soft surface of lead bullets. Even "hard cast" lead is softer than copper. Polygonal rifling essentially "squeezes" the bullet into the barrel's internal shape and spins it on its way. Proper rifling "cuts" into the bullet's surface to create grooves to match the rifling and does tend to work better for shooting lead slugs.
With that said, aftermarket barrels for the Glock M20 are dirt cheap...something like $124 from LWD and you can drop in a 5.1" tactical that extracts a bit more than the factory 4.6". Or, as so many 10mm hunters do, drop in a 6" or longer and you will discover the 10mm moves well into .44 Magnum territory in terms of kinetic energy. Underwood makes a 220 grain hard cast that chronos an honest 700 lb-ft from the stock 4.6" barrel and will do substantially better from a 6" tube.

If you're thinking of carrying the G20 as a field backup or primary piece, then you should consider dropping in an aftermarket, traditionally rifled barrel so you can feel confident shooting heavy, hard cast lead slugs.

Having said that, some guy on YouTube had a video where he was shooting Underwood 180 grain FMJ through a car windshield, and then completely THROUGH a 10 gallon paint bucket filled with dirt and positioned on its side! Don't let ANYONE tell you the 10mm ain't bad news!

Regardless of barrel options, if you intend to shoot "real" 10mm loads such as those from Underwood, Corbon, or Buffalo Bore, you will want to swap out the factory spring and guide rod for a stainless steel rod and 22# spring (M20), or 23# spring in M29.

Also, others may tell you all about how you can buy a .45 ACP "this or that" and up-rate it to .45 Rowland and best the 10mm easily....but if you do some research you'll find it's not quite that simple. "Magnumized" .45 ACP loads such as the Super and Rowland introduce quite a number of variables that result in questionable reliability in a field environment.

The 10mm on the other hand...TOP LOADS, when fired from a Glock model 20/29 have proven to be VERY reliable, and VERY powerful.

A 10mm G20 with Underwood ammo is the ballistic equivalent of a short barrel .44 Magnum, except with the 10mm you're carrying SIXTEEN to EIGHTEEN rounds compared to a .44 Revolver carrying SIX.

From a sectional density standpoint, a 220 grain hard cast 10mm slug has GREATER penetrating potential as compared to a 240 grain .430" hard cast .44 slug at EQUAL kinetic energy.

 

[Stevie]

I tried a couple varieties of Underwoods 10mm ammo in my new G20SF...and the pistol didn't like the heavy hard-cast loads. The G20 factory barrel didn't lead or anything like that..it just wasn't as accurate as the other 10mm factory loads I have shot.

After some experience shooting various bullet weights from my G20 seems to me that my particular G20 shoots best with 180gr or similar weight bullets. These weight bullets shooting perfectly to point of aim on my fixed-sight pistol...