A British Service Revolver (Canadian Issue)

[Goony]

I'm not certain as to the relative rarity of a 6" barrel on one of these. This example has retained most of its factory blued finish. The stocks exhibit some wear but are original. The chambering hasn't been altered.

Serial number 7450XX. My database shows British Service Revolvers in that range as having been shipped in March of 1941.

Marked with a broad arrow embedded within a "C". I take the slash overstamp as signifying its having been sold off as surplus. It bears typical British commercial proof marks that would've been applied to a firearm before it was released into the civilian marketplace.. On the opposite side of the barrel near the frame is stamped "38/380". According to my research, the crown over "BNP" (Birmingham) stamp didn't come into use until 1954.

 

[Goony]

Attached below is a photograph of Canadian officers taking target practice with their S&W service revolvers, of which two appear to be the 6" versions.

 

[LEO918]

Very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting.

 

[JP@AK]

There are BSRs with the 6" barrel known in that early serial range. S&W was providing revolvers from inventory as fast as they could to satisfy the British demand, given that they were already paid for under the unfulfilled submachine gun contract. I have no information on the number of them, so I can't verify the "rarity." But I don't think the number is tiny. Weren't there some 6" units that went to South Africa? Charlie would probably know.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Weren't there some 6" units that went to South Africa? Charlie would probably know.

Hi Jack:

I am not aware of any 6 inch guns shipped to South Africa. A quick peek at the Victory Database does not show any either. The SA guns were 4 inch guns.

There were a substantial number of 6 inch guns that were purchased by the British Purchasing Commission. I would not consider a 6 inch, .38-200 pre-Victory to be rare or even scarce.

Regards,
Charlie

 

[PJGP]

Hi Jack:

I am not aware of any 6 inch guns shipped to South Africa. A quick peek at the Victory Database does not show any either. The SA guns were 4 inch guns.

Regards,
Charlie

The first 14000 odd SA guns were 4". On placing a further order S&W said that they were only now making 5" (for Britain obviously), but that SA's spares would still fit. 7500 5" were ordered and delivered, still to full commercial finish and grips. All subsequent SA guns were Lend Lease and obtained via the London Munitions Assignments Board. Final total just under 27000.

Peter

 

[dobegrant]

Very cool piece of history

 

[Mk VII]

The 38/380 was only supposed to be stamped on guns that had been reamed out, but some people got over-enthusiastic with the stamps.

 

[Goony]

The 38/380 was only supposed to be stamped on guns that had been reamed out, but some people got over-enthusiastic with the stamps.

My understanding is that the British terminology for their version of the .38 S&W cartridge was .38/200 and later .380 Revolver MkIIz when loaded with a 178 grain jacketed bullet. Thus, I'd take the 38/380 stamp as indicating the revolver retained its original military chambering, which in fact my example does.

 

[PJGP]

My understanding is that the British terminology for their version of the .38 S&W cartridge was .38/200 and later .380 Revolver MkIIz when loaded with a 178 grain jacketed bullet. Thus, I'd take the 38/380 stamp as indicating the revolver retained its original military chambering, which in fact my example does.

The British terminology was Cartridge S.A. Ball Revolver .380" Mark I and Mark Iz for the 200 grain bullet (z=nitrocellulose propellant). The 178 grain was as above, but II and IIz.

38/200 was the headstamp used by Kynoch (and possibly others) for a 200 grain commercial round.

The 38/380 stamp was a part of a rather complex scheme to easily identify the chambering of the range of revolvers aquired from the USA in the early part of the War (1939-45).

Peter

 

[DWalt]

Commonwealth military ammunition boxes were label stamped in several ways, all were variations of .380 Mark I or Mark II. Never .38/200 or .38 S&W. The British official nomenclature for the revolver itself was "Pistol, Revolver, Smith and Wesson, No. 2" No. 2 indicated .380 caliber, not .455. .38/200 was not official Commonwealth military nomenclature for the revolver or its ammunition, although S&W unofficially used it.

 

[Goony]

The British terminology was Cartridge S.A. Ball Revolver .380" Mark I and Mark Iz for the 200 grain bullet (z=nitrocellulose propellant). The 178 grain was as above, but II and IIz.

38/200 was the headstamp used by Kynoch (and possibly others) for a 200 grain commercial round.

Commonwealth military ammunition boxes were label stamped in several ways, all were variations of .380 Mark I or Mark II. Never .38/200 or .38 S&W.

Thank you, gents, for clarifying the nomenclature that applies to the military cartridges.

 

[Shark Bait]

I bought this one from a pawn shop a few years ago. No proofs on it and minimal wear. Stocks number to the gun. The letter states it shipped in a batch of 1200 guns with 6 inch barrels.

 

[shovelhead]

I have one that also is a 6" barrel. Mine was shipped in February 1941, has the Canadian proof mark without a slash through it, barrel stamped 38/380. No import stamping anywhere. Still has the lanyard loop,original stocks were removed and replaced with a pair of shrunken Franzites.

Interesting thing, Roy stated the gun left the factory with a 5" barrel, mine is a 6" barrel and on the underside above the ejection rod the serial number is stamped and matches the number stamped on the butt. I need to letter this gun.

 

[Mk VII]

Colt New Navy which has been stamped .38/380. This was made in .38 Long Colt.

 

[Goony]

Colt New Navy which has been stamped .38/380. This was made in .38 Long Colt.

Does this particular example chamber .38 S&W?

Not meaning to stray too far off topic, according to the Imperial War Museum, the British Purchasing Commission procured over 49,000 of the Colt Police Positive model. These were marked "38-200" on the barrel, apparently by/at the factory. Here's one: Colt Official Police 5" 38-200 SN:667009 MFG:1941 - British - Old Colt

 

[Mk VII]

Yes, it does.
We had another discussion on this subject last year.
https://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-h...5-38-he-british-purchasing.html#post141794818

 

[PJGP]

Not meaning to stray too far off topic, according to the Imperial War Museum, the British Purchasing Commission procured over 49,000 of the Colt Police Positive model. These were marked "38-200" on the barrel, apparently by/at the factory. Here's one: Colt Official Police 5" 38-200 SN:667009 MFG:1941 - British - Old Colt

The alleged 49,000 were Official Police, not Police Positive (typo?). The information usually found on these guns, to wit 49,000 and the Crown W mark being applied in the USA, is wrong. Research in the UK has confirmed that the quantity was 18250, and that the Crown W mark was applied at Woolwich Arsenal in England. Some are also found with Enfield imspection marks as well as Woolwich.

The photo is of Colt s/n 660205 and butt number 1215.

Peter

 

[Goony]

The alleged 49,000 were Official Police, not Police Positive (typo?).

Yes, I don't know why I typed in Police Positive.

 

[Mk VII]

The crown W appears on Tommy guns as well, but never S&W products as far as I know. I'm inclined to think it was applied by the Joint Inspection Board of the United Kingdom and Canada.