A couple of Mauser Sporters

[bulletslap]

First a JP Sauer & Son in 9x57, a factory built sporter, equipped with a Lyman 35 rear sight.

 

[RoyS]

Can we see the whole rifle?

Looks cracking.

Cheerio,

Roy

 

[bulletslap]

I gave it a try.

What I (think) know about the rifle is that is was built around 1905-1910
On a Oberndorff M98 action that was sourced from Mauser by JP Sauer to build into a sporting rifle, that is it was never a military 98. It was built for the American market for a retailer such as VL&D or VL&A in NYC and Chicago respectively or a similar retailer such as A&F.

It seems original and unmolested, although I am not certain if the leather faced recoil pad is original. If not it is not it has been on the rifle for a very long time. It also has an externally adjustable trigger, but not a set trigger.

The barrel starts as an octagonal barrel that is swamped into a round barrel with a rib.

 

[Gene L]

Beautiful! I love those Pre-war sporters. Mine is 8x57J with a Lyman aperture mounted on the right side of the receiver and with a front claw mount. It kicks!

 

[bulletslap]

Next is a post WWI sporter built from a Military M98AZ Carbine, not as well done as the Sauer but a nice little rifle. As I understand it these were built in the 1919-1920s for sale by gunsmiths and small factories for survival in the Post WWI era and are called “Cigarette” rifles as the were often traded for cigarettes and other commodities. It is in 8x57, and is engraved with the letters DAS. I have seen a couple of almost identical rifles sold online over the years, but have never learned anything definitive about them. It has obviously a set trigger.

I have fired the 8x57, but I have not fired the 9x57, I need to form some brass and locate a die set, bullets etc.

 

[Drm50]

It’s nice to see a few real rifles, black stuff is boring and has no class.

 

[moosedog]

Beautiful rifles. The JP Sauer & Sohn are my favorite pre war Mausers.
True craftmanship.

 

[Gene L]

Next is a post WWI sporter built from a Military M98AZ Carbine, not as well done as the Sauer but a nice little rifle. As I understand it these were built in the 1919-1920s for sale by gunsmiths and small factories for survival in the Post WWI era and are called “Cigarette” rifles as the were often traded for cigarettes and other commodities. It is in 8x57, and is engraved with the letters DAS. I have seen a couple of almost identical rifles sold online over the years, but have never learned anything definitive about them. It has obviously a set trigger.

I have fired the 8x57, but I have not fired the 9x57, I need to form some brass and locate a die set, bullets etc.

Another fine rifle but I think you have your timeline wrong. Cigarette rifles were produced after WW 2 and were traded to American GIs for cigarettes and other goods. A lot of cigarette guns were rechambered to American calibers like the 30-06 if the GI could afford a new barrel on the 98 action. I've got a couple in 06; not nearly the quality of the older guild guns.

Also, after WW 1, German gunmakers couldn't make rifles in military calibers by treaty, so the 8x57 wouldn't be able to be produced, as I understand it in my limited knowledge of German guns. The Germans responded with such chamberings as the 8 x 60 and no doubt other ones we seldom see now. So your rifle might be older than you think.

Someone else who knows a lot more about German rifles than I will respond, so let's wait awhile.

 

[bulletslap]

Another fine rifle but I think you have your timeline wrong. Cigarette rifles were produced after WW 2 and were traded to American GIs for cigarettes and other goods. A lot of cigarette guns were rechambered to American calibers like the 30-06 if the GI could afford a new barrel on the 98 action. I've got a couple in 06; not nearly the quality of the older guild guns.

Also, after WW 1, German gunmakers couldn't make rifles in military calibers by treaty, so the 8x57 wouldn't be able to be produced, as I understand it in my limited knowledge of German guns. The Germans responded with such chamberings as the 8 x 60 and no doubt other ones we seldom see now. So your rifle might be older than you think.

Someone else who knows a lot more about German rifles than I will respond, so let's wait awhile.

There was a very short period of time, between the Armistice in November 1918 and the Treaty of Versailles that went into effect in very early 1920 when Sporters were made in 8x57 and other calibers. I may be wrong calling it a cigarette rifle, but I am certain it is a post WWI sporter, definitely earlier than the end of WWII.

A few other tidbits, it has the .318 groove diameter of the earlier 8x57I chambering. And the M98AZ is a small ring action.

 

[leonardocarrillo]

Dude, your rifles look amazing, the Sauer is a beauty in every way, and the other Mauser action rifle has something that I really like and it's the double trigger, thanks for sharing and congratulations.

 

[leonardocarrillo]

Next is a post WWI sporter built from a Military M98AZ Carbine, not as well done as the Sauer but a nice little rifle. As I understand it these were built in the 1919-1920s for sale by gunsmiths and small factories for survival in the Post WWI era and are called “Cigarette” rifles as the were often traded for cigarettes and other commodities. It is in 8x57, and is engraved with the letters DAS. I have seen a couple of almost identical rifles sold online over the years, but have never learned anything definitive about them. It has obviously a set trigger.

I have fired the 8x57, but I have not fired the 9x57, I need to form some brass and locate a die set, bullets etc.

If these rifles are exchanged for cigarettes I have 10 boxes of Marlboro, 10 of Lucky, 10 of L&M and 10 of Gitanes to exchange for your rifle.

 

[bulletslap]

A good one my friend

 

[2152hq]

Nice rifles.
That JP Sauer is a beauty.
Are you sure that trigger on the Sauer isn't a Single Set Trigger ?
It looks like it in the pics.

If in operating condition, you should be able to push the trigger forward by pushing on the backside of the trigger shoe. It'll rotate forward and 'click' in the forward position.
That's the 'Set Position'.

Then a light pull will flip the trigger rearward and kick the sear out of engagement and drop the striker.

The small screw is used to adjust the trigger pull up and down. The further the screw is turned 'in' the lighter the pull.

Single set triggers were never as popular as the double set style and they never give you quite the same light let-off. But they were a Mauser option and offered by most all the European makers of the day.

I have one Mauser 98 (looks like an Army Mod C in 8x57) that is equiped with a single set trigger (SST).

That Lyman rear sight is quite a rare item in itself too.

Lots to like about that rifle!

Congrats on the pair!

You'll enjoy reloading & shooting the 9x57.
358Winchester load data is a good start point. In fact I just stay right there.

 

[handejector]

It seems original and unmolested, although I am not certain if the leather faced recoil pad is original. If not it is not it has been on the rifle for a very long time. It also has an externally adjustable trigger, but not a set trigger.

The Sauer is a NICE piece.

Trigger- Did you check to see if that is a single set trigger? Push it forward and see if it sets.


I doubt the leather pad is original. What is the LOP?

 

[handejector]

Jim, your post wasn't there when I started typing!

 

[handejector]

Your other rifle is a cut above the average "subsistence" grade of guns built by gunsmiths just to make a few marks for a loaf of bread and a potato. But you probably already know that. I wish you had more pics. I would expect that gun to have been rust blued. Do you know if it has been redone?

 

[bulletslap]

It maybe be a single set trigger that is not functioning properly, I need to take it out of the stock and take a look at it. In the 9x57 I plan to shoot cast bullets, so the loads will be moderate, the moose are scare in WSTX

The Sauer's LOP is 14 1/4 to the end of the pad, and 13 1/2 to the end of the wood. If the pad was added it was done correctly and the curve of the butt was maintained and not cut straight across like so many pad jobs are.

The finish of Sauer is original, I believe. The receiver is similar to the old style Colt blue, it is shiney and really blue, the barrel and furniture is a more subdued rust blue. The 8x57 has been replied and sadly I see some pitting near the end of the barrel that wasn't filed out.

Let me know what areas you would like to see photos of and I will give it a shot.

 

[handejector]

I forgot on the Sauer-
What makes you think it was built for the American market? I don't think so. Not a popular caliber here. 7mm or 8mm would have been a better seller. I could be wrong.
I also think that rifle is later than you think. Maybe late 20s, early 30s. That stock style just doesn't fit Pre WW I Germany, IMO, with the flatter pistol grip and lack of schnabel, but, again, I could be wrong.
Both are fine and I like them. Just chatting here.

 

[bulletslap]

The reason I believe it was for the American market is the Lyman 35, and the spelling of son, in JP Sauer & Son is the English version and not Sohn as I see on my other Sauers. The reason I believe it is pre-WWI is the take down wedge in the fore end, the octagonal to round type barrel, and the panels on the stock which seem to me to be early features.

The 9x57 had some popularlarity in the US and I recall Winchester chambered a few Model 54s in that cartridge.

When I take it out of the stock it may have some markings on the under side of the barrel that will help establish era of manufactor.

I was very lucky to snag these at a price I could afford.

 

[Gene L]

My rifle also has a Lyman sight. It was definitely made for the German market, 8mm I bore and according to the German Collectors Assn. board made in 1910-11. I think there were none better than the Lyman sights back then which may account for why it's on a guild rifle.

While "Son" as opposed to "Sohn" is important, it doesn't necessarily mean American. Could. however, be indicative of an English-speaking market, where a 9x57 would have a broader appeal.

Another member here posted a few weeks ago with some dandy Oberndorf rifles, if you go down the board.

We all are making inferences here (me included) but what I did is join the GGCA and send photos of my rifle to them. They have a VERY knowledgeable membership that was able to give me a whole lot of information, including the name of the store that originally sold it.

As for reloading, .318 bullets are hard but not impossible to find. The only ones I found were something like 174 gr. I found a sizing die on Ebay.