A lead question

[Yankeetom]

I’m looking to pick up some 148gr dewc from Zero. Being they are swaged and I have only loaded cast over the years, will my current load data work? I use 2.7gr bullseye & 3.2gr w231. Just target shooting, no competition. I was just concerned over leading, which I don’t have a problem with now.
Thanks…Tom

 

[Patrick L]

I know from experience the 2.7 Bullseye load will be fine. No reason to doubt the 231 load will be too, but I've never loaded that powder so no personal experience. Is that a commensurate load from reliable data?

 

[stansdds]

You should be just fine with target wadcutter velocity loads, they are well below the level at which significant leading would occur.

 

[Yankeetom]

I know from experience the 2.7 Bullseye load will be fine. No reason to doubt the 231 load will be too, but I've never loaded that powder so no personal experience. Is that a commensurate load from reliable data?

The 3.2 w231 load is common load. I’ve got a Davis ppc gun that loves that load!

 

[Nick B]

I shoot that same Zero bullet in my Python . 2.7 Bullseye .Even after a 100 round range session I have no leading.

 

[GypsmJim]

The 2.7 Beye and 3.2 231 are my gotos since the early 1970's. I had huge leading problems initially but the leading went away in 1975 when I started casting.

I attribute my early problems to using Speer 148 WCs. I don't know what the hardness was back then. My own cast boolits used to be from Lyman #2, at a hardness of about 15. Now I cast with 100% wheel weights and achieve about 18 hardness. For most of my casting now I water quench as well and get a Brinell hardness of about 20.

(MY data here is from my own test results.)

I have researched some vendors that sell "hard cast" bullets and some say they are 18 hardness.

Bottom line is that you should not have a problem unless the bullets are "soft". Ask your vendor for their data.

 

[rwsmith]

The 2.7 Beye and 3.2 231 are my gotos since the early 1970's. I had huge leading problems initially but the leading went away in 1975 when I started casting.

I attribute my early problems to using Speer 148 WCs. I don't know what the hardness was back then. My own cast boolits used to be from Lyman #2, at a hardness of about 15. Now I cast with 100% wheel weights and achieve about 18 hardness. For most of my casting now I water quench as well and get a Brinell hardness of about 20.

(MY data here is from my own test results.)

I have researched some vendors that sell "hard cast" bullets and some say they are 18 hardness.

Bottom line is that you should not have a problem unless the bullets are "soft". Ask your vendor for their data.

Speer lead bullets were all swaged (soft lead for forming) and had a 'dry lube' on them. Same with Hornady wadcutters. I'm not discounting what you are saying but I shot a ton of them and never had any trouble with swaged bullets at target velocities. Back in those days I was shooting snub nose revolvers and perhaps that prevented problems. Usually 2.8 gr. of Bullseye and it was hard to get any kind of velocity with a 2" barrel even with jacketed bullets.

 

[rwsmith]

I shoot that same Zero bullet in my Python . 2.7 Bullseye .Even after a 100 round range session I have no leading.

I looked on the Zero distributor, Rozeman and they didn't have any info on how they were lubed. The pictures appear to be wax-in-groove but they are vague. Is that how Zero swaged bullets are lubed?

 

[4barrel]

Look at your favorite reload book and stay under 880fps. I do 3.1 Bullseye in my 3 autos. Some wad cutters are only lubed in the center lube groove. LOTS of shotgun powders work.

 

[rockquarry]

Not an easy question to answer. There are many variable factors besides bullet hardness that affect a good load. Any bullet, swaged or cast, regardless of velocity, is prone to shoot poorly and lead the bore if bullet fit is poor, the diameter is wrong, etc. Hard bullets are just as prone to leading as soft ones, maybe more so.

If you are not casting or swaging your own bullets you are at the mercy of the commercial bullet people. Try small quantities of at least five or six of their bullets and do proper load development and benchrested group shooting at 25 yards if you're serious about accuracy. Check for forcing cone leading and bore leading while you're at it.

Internet-suggested safe loads that you can verify in paper manuals are fine, but often what shoots well in one gun may not be quite right for another.

 

[Nick B]

I looked on the Zero distributor, Rozeman and they didn't have any info on how they were lubed. The pictures appear to be wax-in-groove but they are vague. Is that how Zero swaged bullets are lubed?

Yes

 

[rockquarry]

Yes

The type of lube and how it's applied mean nothing if it works.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

I’m looking to pick up some 148gr dewc from Zero. Being they are swaged and I have only loaded cast over the years, will my current load data work? I use 2.7gr bullseye & 3.2gr w231. Just target shooting, no competition. I was just concerned over leading, which I don’t have a problem with now.
Thanks…Tom

I went through several thousand of Zero's 158-grain RNLs at +P velocities when I started shooting IDPA in the late 90s. My 67-1 loved them. Even at the higher pressures/velocities, they never leaded. I once went through >700 rounds in a two-day class with no leading, though the cylinder was black by the end of the class. I also went through a box of 500 solid-base wadcutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye, also with no leading.

The lube they use is soft and sticky, which is probably part of the reason they worked so well. It's definitely the reason I stopped using them. I switched to plated bullets, which aren't as accurate but are much nicer to load.

 

[rockquarry]

I went through several thousand of Zero's 158-grain RNLs at +P velocities when I started shooting IDPA in the late 90s. My 67-1 loved them. Even at the higher pressures/velocities, they never leaded. I once went through >700 rounds in a two-day class with no leading, though the cylinder was black by the end of the class. I also went through a box of 500 solid-base wadcutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye, also with no leading.

The lube they use is soft and sticky, which is probably part of the reason they worked so well. It's definitely the reason I stopped using them. I switched to plated bullets, which aren't as accurate but are much nicer to load.

Soft and sticky almost always works better than a hard lube, but you won't find many, if any commercial casters using it for the same reason - too messy to deal with and too messy to ship. If my interest was in accuracy, messy wouldn't matter. Guns have to be cleaned anyway and cleanup from using a soft and sticky lube is no different than cleaning one that has been fired with bullets using a hard lube.

 

[willt]

I have loaded and shot a lot of Zero HBWC using around 2.7 of Bullseye or WST over the years. I get a little bit of leading but not much. Not enough to worry about in a 90 round Bullseye match.

 

[gwpercle]

From many years of shooting ...
2.7 grs. Bullseye / 3.2 grs W231
Will be just fine with swaged lead , cast lead , coated lead ...
Hollow base or solid base and double ended wadcutters .

If the soft swaged lead wadcutters seem to not have enough lubricant on them ... roll them around in a little thinned Lee Liquid Alox and let dry .
Coated bullets will not require any additional lube and seem to be a good way to go .
Load Safe,
Gary

 

[Beag]

I've been using 148gr. hollow base from North East supply. They're really soft, but they work well for me, also using 2.7 Bullseye and Starline brass. I'm just partially sizing the cases so the bullet seats easily and using a very mild to non-existent taper crimp. Makes for a smooth-running, stress-free Dillon 550 press. Not a competition shooter by a long way, but these are working better for me than some other loads.