A Little Disappointed - New 686 357 7" Barrel 1st Range Targets

[Golfbuddy45]

Picked up my first S&W brand new TALO 686 .357 Mag revolver, 7" barrel, Custom Laminated Grips, 7 shot No Flutes Cylinder.

Drove straight to the indoor range and shot the following targets. Distance 25 yards - Target rings are 4 inches. Leather Bench Bags For Support.

First target shot 6 with Custom Laminated Grips. Pretty but not very functional. Immediately went to range office and bought Hogue Rubber Grips - major difference. The Custom grips are wider from the finger grooves to the butt as you can see in the picture of the gun and both sets of grips below.

Laminated Grips - nice detail and pretty but not good for shooting -

First target with Wood Grips made it hard to grip and stabilize well.

Second target better with new Hogue grips but still not so good.

Third target better but not what I am expecting from a 7" barrel:

I know it will get better and I need to work on the sights or replace them with something finer.

For comparison here is what I shot immediately after with my stainless Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Magnum 7.5" Barrel- Same Bench Rests, Same 25 yard target, except only 2 inch targets. Been shooting this gun for about 4 years. Almost as close groups as my Kimber .45ACP Gold Match II:

Perhaps some of you shooters can offer some suggestions on sights for this gun. It is a beauty and I love the balance and feel of it. The recoil was very controllable and I have no doubts the sights are my major problem with it.

GB45

 

[Dennis The B]

What ammo was used - bullet wgt, etc.?

Even though you have a 7" barrel, revolvers can be picky about the ammo they use. 7" barrels don't guarantee tight groups.

If you handload, start with a bullet, brass, primers, and powders, and start experimenting. Try a variety of bullets, 158gr, 140gr, and 125gr. Those seem to be favorites. My own preference is Sierra 158gr JHP's.

Right out of the box, some revolvers may be a little rough (relatively speaking). Try a thorough cleaning, and then try a little lapping compound on a cleaning rod and patch - sparingly.

Insure the forcing cone is smooth.

Were you shooting single- or double-action?

Without some imperical data, it's hard to see why you might not be getting good groups.

 

[Dale53]

That revolver is almost certainly drilled and tapped for a scope from the factory. Adding a Red Dot sight would certainly solve the sight "problem".

You have proven to me that you can shoot (many can't) with your .44 Magnum Targets.

I have a couple of 686's and they both shoot well. My first thought is the ammunition.

If you are shooting cast bullets, bullet style, alloy, and bullet size all come into play.

Most main line factory jacketed bullets shoot well. You might want to try some of them. My favorites for accuracy run from .38 Special target wadcutters to 158 gr bullets.

I only shoot cast bullets, these days, and expect accuracy of under 1" at 25 yards. That is whether the load is wild or mild.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[cjcutter1]

Hey you had fun shooting it didn't you.Nice new toy enjoy.

 

[scooter123]

I'm seeing a lot of horizontal deviation in your groups. Normally that's an indication of a poor release in single action or a poor trigger stroke in double action. Since your shooting with your Blackhawk is nothing short of superb, I would suspect that the grips don't fit you well. I would suggest that you hit the S&W Store on their web site and pick up the monogrip for the 500 Magnum. It'll increase the trigger reach a bit and that may help with the accuracy.

One other thought is that if you are resting the barrel, DO NOT DO THIS, it will just destroy the accuracy. I have a 6 1/2 inch 610 and letting the barrel come in contact with anything will more than double the group size. For me what's worked best is to rest my wrists on a sandbag and let the gun recoil in a fashion as similar to shooting offhand as is possible when shooting from a rest.

Finally, there is the matter of ammunition, the longer the barrel the more sensitive it is to ammunition. One piece barrels can whip around like a spagetti noodle. That means that you have to find a weight and velocity that causes the bullet to exit that barrel when is whipping right at the midpoint in it's deflection.

 

[Golfbuddy45]

Yes I was resting the barrel in the leather bag - Interesting observation on that. I was shooting factory Federal 158gr hollowpoints. Will try some various ammo to see what works best. Obviously I have determined that long ago on my .44 mag. I do not reload for several reasons- mostly because I shoot about 14 different calibers of rifles and handguns and don't have the time or inclination to reload. I am happy with buying quality factory ammo and tossing my brass in the big tubs at the range. I had already seen some threads on here about those 500 grips but when I asked at the range gun shop they were not familiar with them. Is this a S&W Shop item only?

--- and yes I had a great time shooting it. Don't have any plans to change it out - just get it perfected.....

GB45

 

[scooter123]

I've found that only 2 of my revolvers can have the barrel rested without any noticeable effect on accuracy. One is my 6 inch 617, as a 22 caliber the section stiffness in relation to the power of the ammunition has the effect of making it a "super Bull" barrel. The other is my model 620 which features a tensioned barrel, on that one the barrel shroud isolates the actual barrel from coming into contact with anything that might effect it's "ring".

BTW, back before free floating rifle barrels became the norm, bedding the barrel to the stock was a critical factor for getting accurate results. The entire purpose for doing this was to have the contact of the barrel to the stock repeat is such a way that the barrel would "ring" off the stock in a repeatable fashion. However, it time it was discovered that the greatest accuracy could only be achieved by using a "free floating" barrel that wasn't in contact with anything along it's length, which is why today's premium accuracy rifles all feature a free floating barrel unless it's a tensioned barrel system. BTW, I expect in anotherr 20 years or so the hot setup for accuracy will be tensioned barrels that ride within shrouds made using carbon nanotubes or come other exotic material. The day may come when we will see 6 lbs. 308 rifles capable of shooting 1 inch groups at 500 yards, course finding shooters capable of matching that won't be easy but the gun rags will publish their results using 500 lbs. lead sleads triggered by robots just to show it's possible.

 

[Golfbuddy45]

Still Disappointed

Well I couldn't get much accuracy with the straight sights so I installed a Weigand Scope Mount and a decent quality Swift 2-6x32mm long relief pistol scope on my S&W Custom 686.

Went to the range today and shot better than without the scope but not nearly as good as my Ruger .44 Super Redhawk. I have not decided yet if the ammo is going awry or the revolver is just not doing the job. Next time out I am going to take a gun vise and lock this thing down good so there is no human error involved and see what it will do with several types of .357 ammo. Below are targets from today - same ammo shot the first couple times out - both factory ammo - Federal 158gr JSP and Fiocchi 142gr FMJ. Targets below show the results as compared to the first targets in my original post at the beginning of this thread:
4 inch targets - - #5 shot first with 7 Federals, then #4 with 6 Fiocchi, and #6 with 6 Federals.

2 inch targets - - finished up with the left 2in circle shooting 6 Fiocchi then the right one with 6 Federals.

Overall the Fiocchi shot better than the Federal - perhaqps due to the type of bullet - smooth pointed tip:

 

[CWH44300]

keep experimenting , I have found I need to work with a new gun for a while before top accuracy is found. Mostly its me needing to get "warm "to the new gun. Good luck and have fun

 

[What the]

How's the finish on the rifling in the barrel? Is it clean and shiny or is it rough and dull? It probably needs to be shot in a little,I've had guns that just got better with round count conversely i've had guns that hit good from the git go.

It never hurts to try different ammo and resting your forearms/wrists not the gun will most likely give you the best results. You shoot real well with your other revolvers so you are not likely the cause. I agree it may be frustrating but do check for chattering/tool marks in the barrel.

 

[Golfbuddy45]

Have been very busy last couple weeks helping daughter move. Hope to get to the range on Friday and shoot some more. I will update with info and targets.

I don't reload and shoot only factory ammo. I do not mind paying for quality ammo but I know from years of experience the more expensive is not always the best for a particular gun.

In earlier posts on this thread a couple of you mentioned cast and jacketed. In general is either one (lead vs jacketed) preferred in this type gun?

Thanks,

GB45

 

[Az Rick]

I agree with What the, I very seldom buy a new gun, but when I do. I load up 200 rounds of jacketed bullets. I aim each shot and squeeze it off with the intention of tearing the 10x out. I do not get disappointed if I don't, I simply shoot the ammo. After a thorough cleaning, I start the quest for a load the gun likes. I firmly believe a handgun barrel needs to be broken in just like a rifle barrel. They also shoot lead with less problems if the bore is burnished or smoothed out. Just my $.02.

Best, Rick

 

[PotShotter]

This is very similar to my recent experience with my new 627PC (discussed in a separate thread here). Hmmmm.. Interesting.

Please let me know if you resolve this. My first groups were very similar to your pics and I know that I am normally a decent shot with a pistol (usually my Glock). So I am testing a number of theories in my next upcoming (soon) trip to the range.

But I bought my 627 PC expecting great accuracy and whether it is the pistol, the ammo or me so far I just didn't see it.

Bob

 

[Retired W4]

Just a note on the above comment. I bought a 10-4 that was NIB, unfired, and the first six were about a 12" group. After five loads (same ammo) the groups were noticeably better. After a few more six round groups the patterns were as good as my not so stellar pistol shooting could produce. Some barrels just have to be broken in, and this one needed to be shot in. I have seen the same phenomenon in my Rem 700 VS, .308.

 

[Golfbuddy45]

My Remington 700 VSSF .223 did not require any breaking in but that is the nature of steel and what day of the week the gun was built!

Will keep ya'll updated on next shoot.. hopefully tomorrow.

GB45

 

[Golfbuddy45]

I went to the range on Monday and shot almost 100 rounds of 4 different .357 ammos - Fiochhi, RWS, Federal, and Aguila. Oddly the cheapest ammo - the 158gr Federal soft points had the best results. I shot standing double handed with NO REST from 25 yards. I hit every shot within the 4 inch targets. I do not have a picture because as I went to remove the target from the SLED it slipped down into the range and there were 5 other people shooting so I just left it there. The next time out I hope to get even better results and will have some targets to show for it.

I am going to look through the forum on trigger tricks for this gun. I know it needs breaking in but the S&W trigger is no where near as good as the Ruger Super Redhawk trigger sensitivity.

GB45

 

[Golfbuddy45]

SHE'S DOING BETTER . . .

Well the S&W 686 .357 WITH THE 7 INCH BARREL is doing better and I think it will be a keeper but still needs some more rounds put through her. I spent the week after the last outing polishing up the bore and working the trigger with back pressure on the hammer in both SA and DA actions as was suggested. I did see a measurable difference in the trigger pull weight especially in S.A. mode. I stopped short of one suggestion of filling the action cavity up with CREST toothpaste and working the action for several hours to POLISH the action surfaces. A LOCAL gunsmith actually told me that would work but I was not that desperate - - -YET!

So here is the target after about 2.5 boxes (120 + rounds) of Fiocchi, RWS, and Federal cartridges - no hollow points. I can honestly say that the rounds that are extra distance from the groups in each circle are me pulling the gun off the aim point. All in all I am much happier with the results but I do think it will continue to get better as it breaks in. Numbered circles 1 to 3 are 4 inch diameter - orange pasties in the middle are 3 inch and the 3 in the bottom circles are 2 inch. Target holes were cleaner but when I rolled it up a lot of the loose paper shreds in the back pushed back into the holes. A lot of shots do not even show as they went through open holes.

 

[Golfbuddy45]

Just wanted to update everyone on my S&W 626 Custom .357 performance. Targets are getting better every time out. A gentleman had a handgun bench rest at the range and he let me borrow it. I was shooting at 15 yards this time and did not bother to run the carrier out to the full25 yards. However, with that good solid base to hold the revolver I put two cyclinders of bullets (14) into the orange center of the target (measures 1 3/8 inch across) and all 14 shots fit inside a nickle.

I believe this certifies the accuracy of the handgun and considering how I shoot my Ruger .44 Super Redhawk the difference in shooting freehand between the two revolvers is most probably due to the different trigger actions. I will continue to "practice" with the S&W and maybe get some trigger work done on it after I get more rounds through it.

GB45

 

[Tunachaser]

man you just need to break that trigger in, don't over think it, shoot the dang thing for at least 500 rds before you think about fooling with it, at least that is more fun than paying someone to polish the trigger. it already looks like it is improoving each time out. by the way, nice gun.

 

[Rawhyde]

It looks like it is shaping up just fine now. Congratulations on a fine revolver. As you shoot it more, it will smooth up some AND you will get used to it. Dry firing with some snap caps will also help to smooth it up without using expensive ammo. Some people say to use snap caps while others say it doesn't matter. I say they can't hurt and they're not very expensive.

Give some serious thought to taking up reloading. Even though you shoot a lot of calibers, start with the ones you shoot the most. You get to shoot a lot more for the same cash outlay, you can tailor the load to the gun and your needs, and it's enjoyable to do in and of itself. I started loading back in 1985 with the last Christmas present my Daddy gave me before he died, a Dillon RL-550.

We learned reloading and shot a lot together in his last several months. I still regularly use that same machine to load .38/.357, .44, and .45 ACP. For other calibers, I use a Rock Chucker I picked up used (for $100) in the Spring of 1986. Looking back, I think it'd be a better idea to start with a single stage, then step up to a progressive press. Think about it...not many Christmas presents from 25 years ago still get used!

Rawhyde