A Little Help on a 455 HE

[Paladinpainter]

This Hand Ejector II was a basket case when it came into my possession. At some point, it has been reamed to 45Colt as the cylinder shows.

You have to give it to the Brits, when it comes to proofs and stamps, they spared no effort. Will somebody translate the hieroglyphics on the hump behind the thumb piece mean and the 'Crown over 30' on the butt mean ? Also, at the rear of the trigger guard there are crossed swords with characters. What kind of info is stamped there ? (picture failed)

Many Thanks,

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum!

That doesn't look bad at all to me, certainly not a basket case. What did you do to fix her up? The lanyard ring is easy to find and replace.

Are those the only stampings on it that are not S&W? Look more like Canadian stamps to me but someone who remembers better than I will know.

Is there a serial number on the cylinder rear face (too dark to tell). Do the stocks have a matching serial number inside of the right stock? They look original.

 

[Paladinpainter]

Jim: A thorough polishing and rust blue made it presentable. There are the BP and NP proofs and "NOTENGLISHMAKE" stamps. The cylinder was not shaved and the grips are original.

John

 

[glowe]

The crown over 30 is an indication that it could have been one of the 14,000 or so that saw Canadian service, but most Canadian models had a "C" stamped somewhere. Check to see if you have crossed pennants on the frame, as this is a British Military acceptance mark. Most of the other are arsenal and inspector marks. I think the "II" indicates the type of 455 cartridge that is acceptable for the pistol. The top mark is a broad arrow mark, but I forgot its significance.

Unless either the cylinder or the frame is shaved, 45 LC will not work without countersinking part of the rim into the cylinder. 455 rim thickness is somewhere around .036" and 45 LC is .056", so .020" has to be compensated somehow.

 

[Jack Flash]

The Crossed Pennants is a British proof mark. The Broad Arrow was placed on a firearm to show it was accepted into British government service. The Canadians have a similar acceptance mark, except their broad arrow is contained within a large "C". The "NP" and "BP" are also proof marks (Nitro Proofed and Birmingham Proofed respectively).

"Crown over E over 4" is an Enfield Inspector's mark, showing that it was inspected at the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock. I can't remember if the "II" was to indicate it was safe to fire the smokless ("nitro") .455 Revolver Mark II cartridge or if this was the Mark II (as opposed to the Mark I "Triple Lock") Smith & Wesson revolver. On this latter point, I've heard it argued both ways.

The "Not English Made" marking was applied when the revolver was sold as surplus to civilians, to comply with British law. (Side note - isn't it odd that here in the US the law is that a firearm has to be marked to indicate where it was made. In England, they had to mark where it was not made!)

I would guess that the "Crown over 30" is another inspector's mark. It seems like the English liked to inspect these to death!

 

[CptCurl]

Also, at the rear of the trigger guard there are crossed swords with characters.

You have not shown us this mark, but it sounds like the Birmingham private viewers' date mark, which would have been applied when the revolver was discharged from British military service and underwent civilian proof at the Birmingham Proof House.

There was a discussion of this particular mark, and I posted a chart of its meaning at this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...29363-s-w-44-hand-ejector-1st-model-15-a.html

Curl

 

[Paladinpainter]

Curl: Thats a great link to a very informative discussion.
Glowe: I'll double check the face of the cylinder.

Thank you all, very much.

 

[Waidmann]

The shaved cylinder face is not the norm for .45 Colt conversion. The Broad Arrow is the acceptance mark, the E as stated Enfield Arsenal. It should bear crossed flags on the frame over the forcing cone area on the left side, the Enfield military proof.

British civil proof standards exceeded military requirements.

The Birmingham Proofs show it entered civil commerce in Britain. BV (Birmingham View), BP (Birmingham Proof) and NP (Nitro Proof) along with the examiner's personal mark, crossed scepters with letters and numbers usually around the trigger guard can be deciphered.

My opinion is that the crowned 30 is a British Property mark applied to weapons loaned to Commonwealth countries (largely Canada). A true Canadian will have a C containing an arrowhead and a sceptered DOP (Dominion of Canada) proofmark at each chamber and under the barrel.

 

[Jack Flash]

I have never seen the crossed swords with letters before, so I'm glad to learn about that. Also, I had some hazy notion of British military vs civilian proofs, but this discussion has brought that more into focus for me.

... It should bear crossed flags on the frame over the forcing cone area on the left side, the Enfield military proof.
...

Reading this, I remembered my WWI British Colt New Service had proof marks for every chamber. I got it out to verify and found my memory was a little off.

It does have the Crossed Pennants located per the above quote. It also has a "Crown Over C Intertwined with P" between each of the chambers at the rear of the cylinder. I understand that this latter is a civilian proof mark. Is it common to mark every chamber like this?

 

[Waidmann]

The above post appears to be London proofs as oppossed to Birmingham. London proofs are usually found on the right not the left side of the barrel and equivalent althougth quite different.