A little leery on autos but may try a shield

[olympicmotors]

After several years of owning and trying to get several autos working reliably I finally sold all my autos a few months ago and bought a 640 pro series J frame. My reliability issues are over , it goes bang every time, period. But ......

As of late I am beginning to miss an auto.

My brief history with autos is: I had a Glock 27 , Walther PPS, and Kahr PM 40 ( all 40 cals ). They all ran great at first. very reliable , and I was a happy camper until about 1 year ago. then I started having all kinds of problems out of all of them almost simultaneously. FTF , FTE, stovepipes, light primer strikes, you name it. My Kahr made several trips back to the factory, my Glock saw a certified Glock armorer a few times, and my Walther had many parts replaced by myself, all to no avail.

My suspicion is this: When these small polymer guns are new they all tend to run pretty well, until you get a couple thousand rounds through them. then they go " out of spec " slightly. Since all the diminsions are so critical on these extremely small autos they begin to have function problems.

I am confident it is not me, I have not changed anything in my technique of shooting. ( Please do not give me the limp wristing argument . that is not what is going on ).

the lifetime warranty by Smith and Wesson is very appealing along with the low price of the shield. I may have to get one, if for no other reason than to use up all the 40 cal. ammo I have stored up.

I have been burned 3 times on autos but I have never had ( or even seen) a bad Smith and Wesson .

I have read the recent thread on shields and everyone seems to be pretty happy with theirs.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

Limp wristing! First!

No, limp wristing is the most overused term in firearms along with "tactical". Particularly when it comes to someone who has been shooting for a while. It just doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people seem to think.


I'm not sure I would blame them on being auto's. A Glock a Walther and a Kahr... that's not a recipe for failure.

Were you using the same make of ammunition all the way through?

I would also wonder how much lubricant you use... it's easy to go overboard on a semi auto. God knows I have done it.

 

[Deadeye Dick]

olimpicmotors, send me the remainder of your .40 S&W ammo and save yourself the heartache. : )

 

[Rastoff]

My brief history with autos is: I had a Glock 27 , Walther PPS, and Kahr PM 40 ( all 40 cals ).

What else do all these guns have in common? They are tiny guns.

Since all the diminsions are so critical on these extremely small autos they begin to have function problems.

No, the dimensions on the guns you've mentioned are not as critical as you seem to think. A couple thousand rounds is not near enough to make them malfunction just because of wear. Ramp that number up to 70,000 and I would say maybe, but not from a couple thousand.

I owned a G27 and put a couple thousand through it without any malfunctions. I have a friend with a Walther and he's never had an issue. I'm sure the Kahr is just as good if we ask enough people. I'm not saying these guns are flawless, they have problems just like any other gun manufacturer. They are quality guns though.

Now you're looking at another tiny gun. Maybe you should try a full size first. Get used to it before trying another micro gun. The small guns often are difficult to grip properly. This can allow them to move around in your hand which can have an adverse affect on function.

Seriously, try an M&P 40 first. Even a 40c might be better than the Shield for you.

Oh yeah, where do you live? Some work with an instructor might help as well.

 

[ironhead7544]

The other thing in common is they are all 40 S&W. This is a high performance cartridge. Pressure is almost the same as the 357 Magnum. I would expect to have some accelerated wear over the 9mm or 45 ACP.

Like any carry pistol, you should have two of the same type. One for practice and one for carry. Also as a backup as your main carry may be damaged, lost or stolen.

Since I handload, I work up a lighter practice load that wont put as much wear on the pistol and cases.

Revolvers can also give problems. I was in the middle of a combat match using my duty M581 when the cylinder just quit turning. I finished up that phase by turning the cylinder by hand. Another time a new M629 cylinder quit turning after about 100 rounds.

Concerning "limp wristing", this should not happen with your carry load. I test mine by trying to make it happen. If it does, I get something that wont. Your hands can get injured.

 

[Rastoff]

The other thing in common is they are all 40 S&W. This is a high performance cartridge. Pressure is almost the same as the 357 Magnum. I would expect to have some accelerated wear over the 9mm or 45 ACP.

I'm not convinced this is true even though it seems to be the accepted logic. The 9mm and the .40S&W have exactly the same pressure spec. The .40 does throw a larger bullet, but if the speed is reduced, the end result should be the same.

 

[hoc9sw]

I am at over 2k rounds through my Shield 9. It took that, and 4 trips back to CS to get it to the point that it runs like a clock.

Other semi-autos I shoot (primarily .45) seem to be getting better with age, not worse.

One thing that to some appears as limp-wristing for me, at least, is arthritis damage. There are some things I just can't do anymore. I fired a a few rental .40s before I selected the 9mm, and rejected them all, as there was just a different twist that caused problems with a joint in my hand.

These days a .22 Compact always goes in the range bag, as there is always a point at which anything bigger hurts too much to shoot.

 

[BAMF USMC-1960]

BAMF USMC 1960

Still love my s&w mp shield(s) 9mm - yes plural form. One on me and one by my night stand. Comforting it is!

 

[Saudade]

I dumped another 100 rounds of Freedom Munitions 124gr reloads from my 9mm Shield Friday. To my surprise, I shot waaayyyy better than with my 9C (50 rounds same ammo). Shot the Shield first so the grip change may have been a factor. But I digress.

Both have been extremely reliable,, but only tested on range. I'm around 300 rounds through my Shield, around 2x that in my 9C.

 

[Old cop]

I have a Gen II Glock 23 that was retired w/me in '97. It ran perfectly until about 6 months ago when it began to experience every kind of malfunction known to semi autos. The range guys at my former agency said parts wear out and they completely rebuilt the 23 from the inside out. It runs fine now. The Gen III & IV Glocks on the street now are closely inspected, w/parts replaced, twice a year during qualification.

I too have tried many of the tiny .380 pistols and have not had any "luck" w/them. I just don't have confidence in them.

During my 30 year LEO career I had to use deadly force more than once, and each time the .38 came to my rescue. I retirement I carry a small J frame loaded w/the old FBI round, our duty round back in the day. LEOSA rules in my state require me to qualify w/the type of gun I will carry so I used my Model 38 last summer scoring 85%. I shoot about twice a month and practice often with my carry gun and ammo. When I feel the need to shoot a semi my Glock 23 goes to the range.

My recommendation to you, FWIW (remember this is free) is if you want a semi go for it, but practice until its operation comes as second nature to you before using it as an EDC.

Stay safe.

 

[derek45auto]

" a couple thousand rounds" will not make a quality firearm out of spec.

The Glock 27 should run reliably for tens of thousands of rounds or more.

as will the 40 SHIELD

Quality 40cal guns like this should need minimal maintenance, mostly cleaning and changing recoil spring every few thousand rounds or so.

The first reply is what I suspect.

light polymer framed guns need to be gripped FIRMLY to operate properly.

I have over 500 rounds thru my 40 SHIELD and it continues to be 100% reliable.

 

[Watchdog]

light polymer framed guns need to be gripped FIRMLY to operate properly.

So if I'm not holding my Glock 30S firmly, it might fail to fire or misfeed? Or stovepipe? Or...something?

 

[derek45auto]

google " limp wrist shooting" and see all the results, or, try it yourself.

Glock Limp Wrist Failure in Slow Motion - YouTube



.

 

[Arik]

After several years of owning and trying to get several autos working reliably I finally sold all my autos a few months ago and bought a 640 pro series J frame. My reliability issues are over , it goes bang every time, period. But ......

As of late I am beginning to miss an auto.

My brief history with autos is: I had a Glock 27 , Walther PPS, and Kahr PM 40 ( all 40 cals ). They all ran great at first. very reliable , and I was a happy camper until about 1 year ago. then I started having all kinds of problems out of all of them almost simultaneously. FTF , FTE, stovepipes, light primer strikes, you name it. My Kahr made several trips back to the factory, my Glock saw a certified Glock armorer a few times, and my Walther had many parts replaced by myself, all to no avail.

My suspicion is this: When these small polymer guns are new they all tend to run pretty well, until you get a couple thousand rounds through them. then they go " out of spec " slightly. Since all the diminsions are so critical on these extremely small autos they begin to have function problems.

I am confident it is not me, I have not changed anything in my technique of shooting. ( Please do not give me the limp wristing argument . that is not what is going on ).

the lifetime warranty by Smith and Wesson is very appealing along with the low price of the shield. I may have to get one, if for no other reason than to use up all the 40 cal. ammo I have stored up.

I have been burned 3 times on autos but I have never had ( or even seen) a bad Smith and Wesson .

I have read the recent thread on shields and everyone seems to be pretty happy with theirs.

Kinda weird. I beat my guns to death and rarely clean them I think my Glock 26 is on 5k + rounds without a cleaning. My HK P 2000 in 40s&w has a ton of ammo through it. I can't even tell how many rounds through my Glock 19 and I got it after it was a police gun for a few years. The internals on the 19/26 or the 22/27 should be the same. They just shorten the barrel and slide.

The only problems I ever had was when I assumed that a budget gun would hold up as well as a Glocks/HKs/S&W....

 

[olympicmotors]

I knew the "limp wrist" argument would rear its head, even though I assured in my original post that was not what was happening. I did not change ammo, or my grip or anything else. I am not an expert shooter but I am far from a novice also. When I first got all 3 guns I purposely tried to hold them loosely to see it I could make them have a limp wrist failure and all 3 passed without any failures of any kind. I have seen the youtube videos also.

I am just at a loss to explain what is happening with all 3 guns to start having various problems with about the same round count in each of them. We have all heard about the Glock legendary reliability, and the Walther and Kahr were expensive quality guns that I had about $1000 each in after putting night sights on them and buying extra magazines.

I tried to buy the best quality guns on the market and was disappointed 3 times.

I would really like to get a small semi-auto I can trust, they have many advantages, but I need something I can trust my life and families lives with if I need it.

 

[derek45auto]

Glocks M&P's, CZ's and 1911/2011's are very popular in USPSA/IPSC

a typical IPSC shooter will shoot over 10,000-40,000 rounds a year or more.

at this rate, parts do start to wear out or break.
firing pins/strikers
extractors
etc.. but even at this level it's not common everyday trouble.

but overall, quality guns like Glock, M&P, STI, etc., will hold up to a ton of shooting.

 

[Jayhawkokie]

One thing that to some appears as limp-wristing for me, at least, is arthritis damage. There are some things I just can't do anymore. I fired a a few rental .40s before I selected the 9mm, and rejected them all, as there was just a different twist that caused problems with a joint in my hand.

I have the same problem, I have a pair of fingerless padded palm anti vibration gloves I use when I ride my motorcycle, I put just the right one on and it makes a world of difference.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

Limp wristing.

The most over applied diagnoses in firearms, most often applied by people that have no actual experience diagnosing problems.

 

[Rastoff]

Limp wristing.

The most over applied diagnoses in firearms, most often applied by people that have no actual experience diagnosing problems.

Are you saying that it can't happen?