a question for any and all working gunsmiths here

[ex-texan]

ive already posted this in the lounge, so i hope im not breaking rules or violating etiquettte by posting it here,,,,i didnt see anything in the rules prohibiting my action so if im screwing up i'd ask the moderators to slap my wrist and i wont do it again....
I recently lost my job, and am contemplating starting my own small business as a smith and rebluer/refinisher. Now, before anyone flames me , saying it should be left to the professionals, allow me to give a little personal background, I served under a master smith for 9 years, and have been an automative and diesel/heavy equipment mechanic for 29 yrs, 25 of those yrs professionally, I make those statements just so you know I'm no stranger to tools and working with my hands, I'm just seeking input from any and all working smiths regarding the state of business in this troubled economy. Am i contemplating the worst possible time to go into this line of work, or are there still enough folks willing to pay for what we can provide, For all of you who read this, I thank you for your attention, For all of you who take the time to respond,i thank you for your advice.

 

[ex-texan]

ive already posted this in the lounge, so i hope im not breaking rules or violating etiquettte by posting it here,,,,i didnt see anything in the rules prohibiting my action so if im screwing up i'd ask the moderators to slap my wrist and i wont do it again....
I recently lost my job, and am contemplating starting my own small business as a smith and rebluer/refinisher. Now, before anyone flames me , saying it should be left to the professionals, allow me to give a little personal background, I served under a master smith for 9 years, and have been an automative and diesel/heavy equipment mechanic for 29 yrs, 25 of those yrs professionally, I make those statements just so you know I'm no stranger to tools and working with my hands, I'm just seeking input from any and all working smiths regarding the state of business in this troubled economy. Am i contemplating the worst possible time to go into this line of work, or are there still enough folks willing to pay for what we can provide, For all of you who read this, I thank you for your attention, For all of you who take the time to respond,i thank you for your advice.

 

[john traveler]

Sorry to hear about your employment status. I'm in the same boat. Near retirement age, but with so many formerly good paying industries and positions gone, finding a new one is hard.

In a word, business sucks. I don't know about elsewhere, but general gunsmiths and refinishers in my part of the country are hurting. A fella can go hungry doing this. A simple guage is the number of gun shops that have closed or gone under in the last few years. Another indicator is the diminishing membership of gun clubs and shooting ranges.

Where are you located? For some locales, the local environmental unfriendly regulations alone could put you out of business. Prohibitions against operating machine shops or chemical handling/disposing abound. Getting approved for the FFL and business permit by the local authorities is a big obstacle.

I imagine that a few still doing well are the niche specialty shops: custom pistols, custom revolvers, restoration services, and so on. After years building a reputation, they still have people waiting in line. Those have always served the high dollar customers, and even in a slow economy, there may be fewer customers, but they will always wait for the unique services and products.

 

[jrm53]

If you go into this in a very big way you may have to get a FFL I used to do some work on barrels and milling in Bomars and Witchita sights in Colt gov models and barrel threading and comps for the 45's if you live in a town you may be jacked around by the city also your neighbors and the state for a sales tax number it can be agravting. Also if bluing they probably will call this a hazardous substance if your out in the country go for it but cities can be a lot of trouble.

 

[john traveler]

You are darned tootin' doing gunsmithing in the cities can a lot of trouble! I've known more gunshops, gunshop owners, and gunsmiths that have been chased/put out of business by the City Attorney's office in Los Angeles.

Unless the gunshop you are working for has an FFL that covers your gunsmithing activities, YES, you need to get one yourself.

 

[2152hq]

Get an 01FFL to cover your Gunsmithing activitys for your own shop location.
Even if you end up doing some bench time at a local gunshop, you'll most likely have a shop at home or elsewhere too where the majority of the work gets done.

Your business name & location will be on the FFL. Anything you want shipped to you will come right to you and you won't have to bother depending on a shop for that. Make it independent of another business. You control it.

Zoning regs must allow the business at your location (home?) for the issuance of the FFL. That's one of the biggest reasons for denial of FFL licenses. Keep yourself as low profile as possible for security reasons and use you name as your business name would be my suggestion.
If the state demands it,,get a State Sales Tax Certificate. The BATF will be looking for it anyway during their background check process before issuing the license.

One small thing you can do on an 01FFL (which allows you to be a Dealer as well as a Gunsmith) is that on the application and later renewals, you can designate yourself as 'Gunsmithing Only' if you want. That does a couple of things. First it allows you to be a 'By Appointment Only' business as far as business hours are concerned. A full dealer 01FFL must list daily business hours on the application/renewals. In principle you are to be open for BATF walk-in inspection during those listed hours. (In my experience and others,,they often call first before stopping for a compiance check,,but I've known them not to)
Secondly, and this may be a downside,,it takes away the Dealer aspect of the 01FFL from you. You can no longer use your 01FFL to buy and sell firearms at all...you are as it states..'Gunsmithing Only'.

Latest twist....
If you will be doing any jobs where you buy a gun, then fix it up for resale (restock, reblue, mount a scope, new grips, new sights,etc,,),,then resell that gun,,then you should get an 07FFL (manufacturer) instead of an 01FFL.

BATFE has recently set forth rulings that these types of operations performed by gunsmiths (on other than customers guns), and then the guns are resold by the FFL Gunsmith, are considered 'manufacturing a firearm'.

It's not a big deal,,just a different class license and a Fed Excise Tax form to fill out and send in once a year if you do less than 50 such guns /per year.

No excise tax is due on the mfg of less than 50 guns per year, but the tax form must be filed.

No excise tax (manufacturers) is collected on the work performed on customers guns.

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by john traveler:
You are darned tootin' doing gunsmithing in the cities can a lot of trouble! I've known more gunshops, gunshop owners, and gunsmiths that have been chased/put out of business by the City Attorney's office in Los Angeles.

Yeah, the state of kali is intent on driving gun sellers and gun fixers out of this fair state.

The only reason I ever started working on guns is that gunsmiths are so few and far between here that (as I have said before) they strut like movie stars and charge like brain surgeons. I remember I wanted a simple trigger job on my Beretta 92 and the only gunsmith around here accepting work said it would be 9 months...... for a job that can be done in less than an hour.

The problem with smithing as a profession is you will need all the licenses and permits and also carry massive amounts of liability insurance because some greasy lawyer will be looking to sue somebody anytime a gun is used and damage results (regardless of whose fault it is). You could be another victim of "deep pockets".

Anyway, maybe where you live is not so bad as here and I wish you best of luck.

BTW... you ain't the only one who got laid off last year......

 

[Cary]

I was laid off on 10/30/08 after 16 years. Gunsmithing was also one of my ideas and I did some research into it. I concluded that the starving artist way of life wasn't something I was interested in at this time. With all of the red tape and people out there to get you I think breaking into it would be difficult at best. It is unfortunate.
Cary

 

[Jerry in SC]

If you started about 30 years ago, I'd say it could be a good business. I worked with an excellent gunsmith in the 70's, and wish I had pursued it at the time. I figure I would have developed a decent business by now, if I were worth a durn.

The gun business has a nasty habit of taking a big pile of money and making a smaller pile of money out of it.

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by Cary:
I was laid off on 10/30/08 after 16 years.

Mine was 5/1/08 after 18 years. The unemployment rate is so high around here there aren't even jobs to apply for.

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by Jerry in SC:
The gun business has a nasty habit of taking a big pile of money and making a smaller pile of money out of it.

I remember the old joke about the farmer who won the lottery. They were interviewing him and asked:

"What are you going to do with all that money?"

He thought for a moment and answered....

"I guess I'll keep farming until it's gone too."

 

[Cary]

Originally posted by bountyhunter:

Originally posted by Jerry in SC:
The gun business has a nasty habit of taking a big pile of money and making a smaller pile of money out of it.

I remember the old joke about the farmer who won the lottery. They were interviewing him and asked:

"What are you going to do with all that money?"

He thought for a moment and answered....

"I guess I'll keep farming until it's gone too."

That's a good one and I think applies to the subject at hand very well.
Cary

 

[one eye joe]

Hey Ex-Texan--I'm empathetic to your plight. Why don't you try to hook up with a coupla Gun Shops around your neck of the woods that don't currently offer gun smithing services. Customer leaves the weapon at the dealer's--you do the work in your shop--customer picks up weapon and pays dealer. You and dealer split the fee.Try to get a few dealers on board and see how it goes before making any major investment..........one eye joe

 

[tomf52]

You would probably do much better to open your own automotive based business. A good mechanic can always put food on the table.

 

[HAWKEYE10]

I did hot bath bluing along time ago. There
was not much money in it and a lot of work. I
think you would be better off getting a regular
job to pay bills and put food on the table. Then
do gun smithing part time. Thats what my gun
smith does, he is a policeman in the daytime
and a gunsmith at night. Don