Michael Petrov
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Not sure what model you folks call this, I've just called it a 32-22.
A vintage 22-32
- Thread starter Michael Petrov
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dinghysailer
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That appears to be what S&W called at the time the 22/32 Heavy Frame Target. I would guess it shipped before 1922 or so, probably 1918 to 1920.
There are two things that are not quite right. First is the hammer seems to have been chopped or broken off.
The second is the stocks, which are not what I'm familiar with on this model, but look like those on a Regulation Police. The typical stocks on this model covered the rear grip strap, & had two screws (see photo below).
At the end of WWI, things were a little erratic at S&W, as they resumed civilian production strange things happened as they mixed and matched old parts, and took some short cuts, such as not stamping the S&W logo on the frame.
This is mine, shipped in 1915, before the US entered the war. It is pretty typical, worked hard (& poorly photographed)
Allan
in the hills.
There are two things that are not quite right. First is the hammer seems to have been chopped or broken off.
The second is the stocks, which are not what I'm familiar with on this model, but look like those on a Regulation Police. The typical stocks on this model covered the rear grip strap, & had two screws (see photo below).
At the end of WWI, things were a little erratic at S&W, as they resumed civilian production strange things happened as they mixed and matched old parts, and took some short cuts, such as not stamping the S&W logo on the frame.
This is mine, shipped in 1915, before the US entered the war. It is pretty typical, worked hard (& poorly photographed)
Allan
in the hills.
Michael, welcome to the forum. I love the prewar .22/32 S&Ws, both the longer barrel target models and the smaller Kit Guns.
Alan is correct about the broken hammer. You could probably find an adequate replacement for that one without too much trouble if you were so inclined. And yes, those are not the usual extension stocks seen on a .22/32 Target Revolver. They are, however, the stocks that S&W put on their .32 Regulation Police Target Revolver (same frame exactly, aside from the rimfire/centerfire configuration.)
A. Niedner is probably Albert Niedner, born 1899. The other Niedners with a first name beginning with A. that I found were dead by the time this gun was shipped.
Looks to be in good shape, but the exposed end of the hammer stud on the left side of the gun looks just a little flat to me. That sometimes happens when a gun is polished before being reblued. And are the screw holes in the sideplate slightly dished? If so, that would be another indicator of a refinish.
The front sight on your gun is a Sheard bead sight. This is one of several types of sight that S&W could install on target revolvers in the 'teens and 'twenties.
The patent date on the bottom of the stocks deals with the design and mounting of these square butt "Regulation Police" stocks. The basic I-frame is milled with a round butt, and the grip is small. The Regulation Police stocks are square butt, longer and larger. The back of the revolver frame is "rebated" (stepped) so the wood panels can cover the lower half of the backstrap when installed.
Can you let us know the serial number? Use xx for the last two digits if you want to preserve some confidentiality. I'm guessing this gun would be somewhere between 275000 and 310000.
Alan is correct about the broken hammer. You could probably find an adequate replacement for that one without too much trouble if you were so inclined. And yes, those are not the usual extension stocks seen on a .22/32 Target Revolver. They are, however, the stocks that S&W put on their .32 Regulation Police Target Revolver (same frame exactly, aside from the rimfire/centerfire configuration.)
A. Niedner is probably Albert Niedner, born 1899. The other Niedners with a first name beginning with A. that I found were dead by the time this gun was shipped.
Looks to be in good shape, but the exposed end of the hammer stud on the left side of the gun looks just a little flat to me. That sometimes happens when a gun is polished before being reblued. And are the screw holes in the sideplate slightly dished? If so, that would be another indicator of a refinish.
The front sight on your gun is a Sheard bead sight. This is one of several types of sight that S&W could install on target revolvers in the 'teens and 'twenties.
The patent date on the bottom of the stocks deals with the design and mounting of these square butt "Regulation Police" stocks. The basic I-frame is milled with a round butt, and the grip is small. The Regulation Police stocks are square butt, longer and larger. The back of the revolver frame is "rebated" (stepped) so the wood panels can cover the lower half of the backstrap when installed.
Can you let us know the serial number? Use xx for the last two digits if you want to preserve some confidentiality. I'm guessing this gun would be somewhere between 275000 and 310000.
OP
Michael Petrov
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Thanks for the info everyone. I should get a letter on it someday.
A.O. Niedner was a well know gunsmith of the day, he worked from 1906-1920 in Malden, Mass. He then moved to Dowagiac, Mich and worked there from 1920-1940.
I don't do X's ;-)......270925... No refinish IMO, of course it looks like he hit his stamp with a 5 pound hammer.
A.O. Niedner was a well know gunsmith of the day, he worked from 1906-1920 in Malden, Mass. He then moved to Dowagiac, Mich and worked there from 1920-1940.
I don't do X's ;-)......270925... No refinish IMO, of course it looks like he hit his stamp with a 5 pound hammer.
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My friend Michael is the leading authority on pre-WWII American custom gunmakers. I teased him that the S&W folks would find his revolver "disfigured" and that a non-factory name stamp would grossly devalue it.
He owns it because of the Niedner connection of course, and has original workbooks, many artifacts and several of Niedner's firearms. Michael and his artifacts represent a vertiable museum of American firearms knowledge.
And surprising to me, Niedner's 22/32 looks great with the one-screw grips although I'd probably replace the hammer...
Another friend of ours has a Niedner marked S&W single shot .22.
He owns it because of the Niedner connection of course, and has original workbooks, many artifacts and several of Niedner's firearms. Michael and his artifacts represent a vertiable museum of American firearms knowledge.
And surprising to me, Niedner's 22/32 looks great with the one-screw grips although I'd probably replace the hammer...
Another friend of ours has a Niedner marked S&W single shot .22.
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kwill1911
Member
Michael has an excellent book entitled, _Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century_, published by Precision Shooting, Inc. I wish he would write a companion volume on Custom Pistolsmiths of the 20th Century.
Regards,
Kevin Williams
Regards,
Kevin Williams
Foolish of me to assume that was an owner-engraved mark on the gun; it didn't occur to me a firearms dealer would mash his shop's name into a product he was selling. I hadn't heard of Niedner; I guess I needed to have read books like the ones I now know Michael wrote.
Sorry I didn't know your name, Michael. I do now!
Sorry I didn't know your name, Michael. I do now!
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Michael Petrov
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Kevin, Steven, David, Thanks for all the kind words.
Niedner did not sell retail firearms so I suspect that this was his S&W. He did a lot of pistol work such as replacing barrels and the like and his stamp will be found on those. I can't see where any work was done to this pistol.
David, There is no reason anyone should know my name ;-), My area of study is very narrow and rarely involves handguns.
Niedner did not sell retail firearms so I suspect that this was his S&W. He did a lot of pistol work such as replacing barrels and the like and his stamp will be found on those. I can't see where any work was done to this pistol.
David, There is no reason anyone should know my name ;-), My area of study is very narrow and rarely involves handguns.
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Michael Petrov
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It would not be a very good book, most of the custom pistols aside form King & Roper I know little.
I've run across many that have been re-barreled by the likes of Niedner, Pope, Peterson and others. The majority of these were factory handguns with their barrels on them.
TSQUARED
Member
A. O. Niedner was a famous gunsmith well known in the single shot rifle community.
The grips are of particular interest to me. I had seen photos of this revolver before but had not noticed the one-screw extension grips because they look so natural on the gun. I always thought the Beakert grips with the flared and covered backstrap looked awkward.
Is anyone familiar with these grips on a 22/32 Target?
It seems I just saw another Target with these grips?
When I made custom grips for my own cut-down target I used this style without medallions. (it originally had two-screw Beakert grips).
BTW, this is my own copyrighted photo!
Is anyone familiar with these grips on a 22/32 Target?
It seems I just saw another Target with these grips?
When I made custom grips for my own cut-down target I used this style without medallions. (it originally had two-screw Beakert grips).
BTW, this is my own copyrighted photo!
Those stocks are or should I say can be original to the gun. S&W originally supplied the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target with the oversized two screw stocks as discussed in early replies, however, at some point they discontinued those and the guns came with the regulation police style. IIRC they went back to the two screw style later in production.
I have three of these in my collection, 2 with the oversize and one with the regulation police style stocks.
Mine are 163467, 270836 and 384570. These are also referred to as the "Bekeart" style revolvers as gun dealer Phillip Bekeart was instrumental in having S&W build a .22 on a .32 frame.
I have three of these in my collection, 2 with the oversize and one with the regulation police style stocks.
Mine are 163467, 270836 and 384570. These are also referred to as the "Bekeart" style revolvers as gun dealer Phillip Bekeart was instrumental in having S&W build a .22 on a .32 frame.
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H. M. Pope
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
I don't think there original to the gun, in fact I don't think they were made by S&W, knowing the work that SDH can do I think he made them for that gun 
.
H. M. Pope
.H. M. Pope
Niedner is also credited with the actual fabrication of the very first front sight for an inventor by the name of Eugene Patridge.
Among Niedner's more notable accomplishments, I'd think the development of the cartridge we now know as the .25-06 probably ranks near the top....
Mark
I'm flattered Harry, but I've never made a set with medallions and only do grips as a hobby. Just received my second set of KB Grips! Keith does a Much nicer job!
wheelgun, I always though the name 'patridge' came from plinkin' grouse out the widow of the sedan, downeast?
wheelgun, I always though the name 'patridge' came from plinkin' grouse out the widow of the sedan, downeast?
model70hunter
Member
I think a connection to AO Nieder makes this one fine collectors piece. Nieder was well known and very progressive thinking.
bobbed hammer
my 22/32 hft #238639 has the same hammer modification. while i was shopping for it i saw several others like it. i posted a question here quite some time ago if anyone knew if this was a fad thing or whether the hammer might be hanging up on the flour sack when they went to "yank it". can anyone with an original hammer offer an opinion as to whether the hammer might have been able to pinch down on hand meat while being fired? other than the hammer and a chip in the grip mine is like new with only the barest of turn ring (well you can see it better now). this makes me think it was something done either at s&w or at least prior to starting its life as a tool.
my 22/32 hft #238639 has the same hammer modification. while i was shopping for it i saw several others like it. i posted a question here quite some time ago if anyone knew if this was a fad thing or whether the hammer might be hanging up on the flour sack when they went to "yank it". can anyone with an original hammer offer an opinion as to whether the hammer might have been able to pinch down on hand meat while being fired? other than the hammer and a chip in the grip mine is like new with only the barest of turn ring (well you can see it better now). this makes me think it was something done either at s&w or at least prior to starting its life as a tool.
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Michael Petrov
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I've had this S&W for about twenty years, it was like that when I got it so I've left it alone.
I have seen one other with the same hammer and I figured if Niedner had "Broken" it he would have fix it.
I have seen one other with the same hammer and I figured if Niedner had "Broken" it he would have fix it.
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