Accidental discharge in Coconut Creek FL Dunkin Donuts

[Arik]

"Left the scene and later turned himself in,with his lawyers present."
More than one mistake in his MO,imo.
In my cynical mind,when someone leaves the scene of any sort of accident,and later shows up at the police station,I wonder if they're waiting for drugs or alcohol to clear their system.

Or the man simply panicked

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[rwt1405]

I feel sorry for all involved - and this validates my absolute rule of empty chamber outside the house if I'm carrying an auto. I suppose that habit could cost me dearly at some point - I just make it a point to never go where I would need a h/g ... even though I frequently carry one.

Wow, just wow!

 

[STCM(SW)]

An empty chamber on a bottom feeder?
Worthless as I see it.
I CC a revolver most of the time as the use is just using the trigger under dire circumstances.

 

[AlHunt]

I feel sorry for all involved - and this validates my absolute rule of empty chamber outside the house if I'm carrying an auto. I suppose that habit could cost me dearly at some point - I just make it a point to never go where I would need a h/g ... even though I frequently carry one.

Edited to add: a little clarification. Doesn't take a genius to figure out high risk locations: convenience stores in general and especially after dark (even just for fuel), spray car washes after dark, any Wal-Mart on the wrong side of the tracks after 9AM, liquor stores, any mall near the wrong side of the tracks after 4PM, most of the low-end fast food places after dark. I've reached past 60, avoiding all of these places, and never had a problem. I know the tactical types are going to sneer at this - but it's worked for me so far!!

Carry any way you wish, of course. But, watch a few of the ambush videos below and see how attacks come out of nowhere. It's pretty unlikely a person would have time to chamber a round.

Active Self Protection
- YouTube

 

[gman51]

Now do we really want to crucify someone without knowing the facts like the mass media does?
Just this last weekend my belt wasn't tight enough and my gut shoved my gun and holster off my belt to the ground. Now since I knew better I didn't grab the gun by the trigger to put it back on my belt.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Well, in a Dunkin' Donuts I guess you're supposed to say you dropped it. Sounds better than saying you were cleaning it.

I'm probably going to p*** off a few people with my presumption, but I don't believe it. I think he was playing with it, and I KNOW he pulled the trigger. I'd rather be wrong on the off chance that he had an unsafe gun and it actually fell unassisted from wherever he was carrying it, than pass up the chance to be a CORRECT know-it-all and say what I said.

He was fooling with it, and he had his finger on the trigger. Perhaps he dropped it while he was fooling with it, and tried to catch it by the trigger. The gun didn't go off when it hit the floor.

 

[Protected One]

The fact is, this poorly written story doesn't provide enough information to KNOW much about what happened.

 

[Protected One]

Wow, just wow!

If he wants to carry around a paper weight that's his right.

 

[jimmyj]

Doughnut Shop and no LEO present ???

 

[GeoJelly]

There have been more than a few articulate and well-thought out responses on this thread. Those same respondents have been respectful and, although this isn't "my" thread, I appreciate their input. I certainly don't claim to be all-knowing – I just read and maintain my contributing membership here to learn from those wiser than myself.

There have also been a few snarky and lazy responses – none of which (thus far) have offered any useful input. I suppose those respondents, with their sophomoric responses, are intending to demonstrate their superior knowledge and tactical insight regarding this situation. But, in truth, they have offered nothing at all - they've just upped their post count and little else.

I still don't like the idea of any striker-fired auto hitting the floor with a round in the chamber. I've never seen or encountered an example of where that has happened - and I sure hope I don't!!

 

[crazyphil]

ND: Negligent discharge. Put the blame where it belongs.

I agree. There are no accidental discharges. They are all
negligent discharges.
Wyatt Earp was playing poker one night in Tombstone. He was
leaning back on the back two chair legs with the two front ones
off the floor. His revolver fell out of the holster, the hammer
hit the floor, and the gun fired. Scared Hell out of folks.
If a negligent discharge could happen to Wyatt Earp, one could
probably happen to any of us.
Don't know if true, but I have heard that is what started the
practice of keeping an empty chamber under the hammer ,
and plugged up with "burying money".

 

[Hillbilly77]

I'm still struggling with the idea that anybody actually patronizes Dunkin Donuts, what with their terrible coffee and mediocre doughnuts.

 

[rwsmith]

When you are....

How do you drop a gun if properly holstered?

Gun handling tyro.

When you are pulling it out to rob a Duncan Donuts.

Note that he has his 'tactical' sunglasses on. Maybe he was acting like an idiot.

 

[rwsmith]

Two words....

I'm still struggling with the idea that anybody actually patronizes Dunkin Donuts, what with their terrible coffee and mediocre doughnuts.

Krispy Kreme

 

[AlHunt]

I still don't like the idea of any striker-fired auto hitting the floor with a round in the chamber. I've never seen or encountered an example of where that has happened - and I sure hope I don't!!

On the Glock, at least, the striker is blocked until the trigger is pulled. The striker is only partially tensioned until the trigger is pulled. The drop safety on the trigger (that little tab in the middle of the trigger) won't let the trigger move back until it's depressed. The tab does not have enough mass to move backwards with just inertia from a drop.

Our "Safe Action"(R) System. Always safe and always ready. | GLOCK USA

I wanted to be sure before I stuffed the G33 in my waistband ...

 

[tops]

In the early 60s I dropped a P38 from waist high and it landed on the hammer spur and the dent was still the pine floor when we sold the house about 5 years ago. The gun didn't go bang.
On a pre 70 Colt 1911A1 with the hammer down the firing pin is not resting on the primer. Larry

 

[shawn mccarver]

In the early 60s I dropped a P38 from waist high and it landed on the hammer spur and the dent was still the pine floor when we sold the house about 5 years ago. The gun didn't go bang.
On a pre 70 Colt 1911A1 with the hammer down the firing pin is not resting on the primer. Larry

Important points:

1. As to the P38, if it landed on the hammer spur (hence the REAR of the pistol), inertia would carry the firing pin AWAY from the primer, so no surprise that the P38 did not discharge. Try that same trick with a drop on the muzzle, but when you do so, be sure you are behind a bullet proof wall.

2. As to the Colt, you are correct, with the hammer down, the firing pin is not resting on the primer. Unfortunately, that is NOT what determines whether a drop causes a discharge. The discharge comes about when you drop the pistol on the muzzle, and inertia carries the firing pin forward to strike the primer.

 

[Bozman05]

perhaps he was chambering a round when he dropped it. Another good reason to do it before leaving home

 

[Wise_A]

Also while not certain cant Series 70 and older 1911's drop fire if not on half cock ?

I went through a whole thing on this, a couple rather zealous 1911 fans in another subforum thought I was knocking their baby.

You can drop-fire a Series 70, but it takes some real bloody effort to do so. If the gun is in Condition One (round chambered, hammer cocked), you would need:

--a non-functioning half-cock notch, for any one of a couple reasons
--the thumb safety to be off, fit extremely poorly, or a plunger that was boogered all to hell and wasn't able to keep the thumb safety engaged

The sear doesn't even have to catch the hammer. Just snagging the half-cock notch on the way down is enough to retard the hammer sufficiently to prevent the gun from firing.

In Condition Two (round chambered, hammer down), well...I don't even know how that would work.

What about the inertial firing pin? Ned Christiansen did a test of that theory, using an empty primed case, a worst-case steel firing pin, a weak firing pin return spring, and a rig built to drop the gun squarely muzzle-down. If I remember correctly, at the longest drop they were able to test from (8 or 11 feet, one of the two...they were limited by the ceiling) the primer got a tiny dimple in it.

So basically, any 1911 that's in good working order, and passes a competent function and safety check, is nigh-impossible to drop fire. I actually think your best bet for making such a thing happen would be to use a heavy, garbage trigger (good luck actually finding a trigger this bad), and a very light trigger pull. And even then, both the thumb safety and grip safety would collude against your sabotage.

Long story short, the Series 80 is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Really well-made Series 80 pistols aren't naturally any worse than an equivalent Series 70, but it's just extra parts, imo.

Wyatt Earp was playing poker one night in Tombstone. He was
leaning back on the back two chair legs with the two front ones
off the floor. His revolver fell out of the holster, the hammer
hit the floor, and the gun fired. Scared Hell out of folks.
If a negligent discharge could happen to Wyatt Earp, one could
probably happen to any of us.

Well, it could happen to any of us carrying a 19th-century single-action revolver.

I doubt it could happen with a modern design.

There have also been a few snarky and lazy responses – none of which (thus far) have offered any useful input. I suppose those respondents, with their sophomoric responses, are intending to demonstrate their superior knowledge and tactical insight regarding this situation. But, in truth, they have offered nothing at all - they've just upped their post count and little else.

Well, for one thing, if you need it, you're going to need it in a hurry.

For another, you may need your off-hand for something else. Fending off a blow, sacrificing it to a slash, pushing away an attacker, pushing a loved one behind you, holding a door shut, dialing a cell phone. In fact, there was an article in The Blue Press describing a situation where a guy died trying to hold a door shut while getting his empty-chamber pistol ready. Took his hand away to chamber a round, lost control of the door, guy pushed in and shot him.

Now--if you don't want to carry a striker-fired pistol sans external safety with a round in the chamber, that's fine! We all have different levels of comfort with different firearm actions. Don't do stuff you're not comfortable doing.

One thing you can do is study, and perhaps take a class, to attain that level of comfort. Digging into the guts of how different guns work is interesting*.

Alternatively--carry something else! We're awash in high-quality, small-size defensive handguns. Everything from shrunken 1911-pattern pistols like the Springfield EMP, to S&W J-frames with superb .38 and .357 defensive ammo, to DA/SA automatics like the Sig (or even a 'classic' S&W DA/SA!).

*Digging into how to make them work well, perfecting trigger pulls and smoothing actions and the like, is a dark path to oblivion.

 

[Breakaway500]

Barney should not have put his bullet in.

I've been present on 4 NDs. One was at a gun show.

Something you don't forget.