Accuracy is coming: Apex M&P Barrels

[lplatta]

Are you testing these barrels on the public??

Thanks randy. Sorry if I missed this but any idea when these will be available?

Not sure if you think that the Your barrels are as good as companies already making barrels. Your FSS and flat faced trigger are a disappointment for sure. Great kits at the Sub'race gun level. Really poor performance at a high level. Sorry buddy, but will sell you back this full-race kit at anytime. Love your carry kit though!!

 

[mtnwinds]

I think the APEX kits are fine. Just don't go beyond a carry kit. I went whole hog on an M&P pro for some speed shooting steel race gun. What a piece of ****. You can't time it. Sear release vs striker clearance. Can you imagine a barrel?? Pass. I did buy a Wilson match barrel for my pro and it did improve groups at 25yrds. Then I installed a FSS and flat faced trigger from APEX. Now the once great gun is unreliable. On top of that they would not provide any customer service for me. I would be very cautious of buying a barrel from them.

I went 'whole hog' on both a full size 40 and a 40c. I was eventually able to adjust the timing on each pistol. It did take some trial and error assembly/reassembly. The 40c was particularly troublesome. It would work flawlessly for a while and then start having light strikes. I found that the allowed tolerances during M&P manufacturing can be pretty generous and if they all stack up the wrong way I've no doubt it would be impossible for a kit to work. Sorry you had problems but I suspect your experience was more the exception rather than the rule.

APEX is growing and anticipating a major move. I imagine it's very difficult to maintain excellent customer service during times of change but I have found them to be responsive to my inquiries. I don't know if they will refund your purchase or not but it would be worth a try to request it if you haven't already done so.

Regarding their new barrel venture, I'm looking forward to it and quite honestly think it will become a very successful venture for them. I'm not in any way trying to minimize the disappointment you've experience but I've had some experience with designing and producing unique firearm parts and have more than a little empathy for what the folks at APEX are going through right now. Here's hoping things work out so everyone in the firearms community benefits.

 

[fltbed]

In my case, my personal M&P 5" would shoot about a 24" group at 50 yards off sandbags.

Are you sure you weren’t shooting my 9L?

My original barrel would only do about that well. The first replacement barrel was worse. The second replacement barrel was only slightly better than the original one. I currently have a Storm Lake installed and it shoots 5” groups @ 50 yards with my current match ammo.

Jeff

PS Randy, if you need a beta tester for your 5” barrel I’d be happy to buy one and send you feedback.

 

[ddraper]

Why wait for Apex. You can get Storm Lake match grade barrels.

STORM LAKE - S&W M&P PRE-FIT MATCH GRADE BARRELS

 

[27Veer]

I will put one on my CORE because I can actually make 50 meter shots with my RMR mounted but the groups look like s shotgun blast 5-6 inches. I'm pretty certain that with a match barrel these groups will stabilize in the 2-3 inch range just like my 1911 with a fitted Ed Brown barrel.

 

[agksimon]

Why wait for Apex. You can get Storm Lake match grade barrels.

STORM LAKE - S&W M&P PRE-FIT MATCH GRADE BARRELS

Except that the Storm Lake barrel has a much slower twist rate than the Apex and probably will not stabilize 147 grain bullets as well. I have many thousands of rounds of the heavier ammo and don't want to take the chance. Another problem with the Storm Lake barrel I had, was when I tried Winchester white box 115 grain FMJ, it wouldn't let me eject a live round. Found that ammo is at the long end of spec and caused that problem. I had to remove the magazine and drop the live round out the bottom.

 

[jas4u]

I think the APEX kits are fine. Just don't go beyond a carry kit. I went whole hog on an M&P pro for some speed shooting steel race gun. What a piece of ****. You can't time it. Sear release vs striker clearance. Can you imagine a barrel?? Pass. I did buy a Wilson match barrel for my pro and it did improve groups at 25yrds. Then I installed a FSS and flat faced trigger from APEX. Now the once great gun is unreliable. On top of that they would not provide any customer service for me. I would be very cautious of buying a barrel from them.

Wow, same experience. FSS and flat faced trigger failed on mine also, ended up using a production frame on a limited division to complete all stages.

 

[Randy Lee]

I think the APEX kits are fine. Just don't go beyond a carry kit. I went whole hog on an M&P pro for some speed shooting steel race gun. What a piece of ****. You can't time it. Sear release vs striker clearance. Can you imagine a barrel?? Pass. I did buy a Wilson match barrel for my pro and it did improve groups at 25yrds. Then I installed a FSS and flat faced trigger from APEX. Now the once great gun is unreliable. On top of that they would not provide any customer service for me. I would be very cautious of buying a barrel from them.

Hi lplatta,

I am sorry you had such a bad experience with our products. Who did you speak to in customer service? When you say that we would not provide any customer service, what were you asking for? Did you purchase the kit from us directly?

I would encourage anyone having technical problems to contact us directly to resolve issues. There are times that factory tolerances work against drop in parts, but our tech support should be able to help resolve those issues.

 

[Randy Lee]

Why wait for Apex. You can get Storm Lake match grade barrels.

STORM LAKE - S&W M&P PRE-FIT MATCH GRADE BARRELS

There are many aftermarket barrels available- that is what is great about a Free Market.

We have tested all the major aftermarket barrels out of a Ransom and while we cannot release the results, I can say that the drop in barrels we tested showed a lower degree of improvement than I expected.

 

[agksimon]

There are many aftermarket barrels available- that is what is great about a Free Market.

We have tested all the major aftermarket barrels out of a Ransom and while we cannot release the results, I can say that the drop in barrels we tested showed a lower degree of improvement than I expected.

The Storm Lake drop in I tried in my Compact 9 didn't tighten up my groups at all and I tried many brands and weights of ammunition. The barrel went back.

 

[fltbed]

Why wait for Apex. You can get Storm Lake match grade barrels.

STORM LAKE - S&W M&P PRE-FIT MATCH GRADE BARRELS

While it is an improvement over the factory barrel, it’s not what I would call “match grade”. From what I’ve read from others who have them, mine is typical, shooting 5” 50 yard groups with ammo it likes…and no it doesn’t stabilize 147 gr bullets either.

Jeff

 

[F4injected]

There are many aftermarket barrels available- that is what is great about a Free Market.

We have tested all the major aftermarket barrels out of a Ransom and while we cannot release the results, I can say that the drop in barrels we tested showed a lower degree of improvement than I expected.

Question about the M&P9L Performance Center 5". As it is supposed to be hand-fitted and all that, do you think it is susceptible to the same loose tolerance barrel wiggle/ lockup issues you mentioned previously?

 

[Randy Lee]

Question about the M&P9L Performance Center 5". As it is supposed to be hand-fitted and all that, do you think it is susceptible to the same loose tolerance barrel wiggle/ lockup issues you mentioned previously?

For the most part, yes.

You can check your pistol by pulling the slide back a few thousandths of an inch and try wiggling the barrel at the muzzle end and at the chamber end. None of the PC guns that have come throught the shop show evidence of hand fitting.

That being said, it really boils down to whether you believe the gun to be accurate to your standards. It is not my intention to say every M&P needs our barrel because clearly, most owners are perfectly happy with their pistols as they come from the factory.

I like to push the boundaries of what is possible. From our accuracy testing, I have not found a factory gun capable of sub half inch at 25 yards. I do have numerous test targets from guns fitted with our barrels that meet that criteria.

 

[F4injected]

For the most part, yes.

You can check your pistol by pulling the slide back a few thousandths of an inch and try wiggling the barrel at the muzzle end and at the chamber end. None of the PC guns that have come throught the shop show evidence of hand fitting.

It does wiggle slightly but how much is acceptable? Is it supposed to be no wiggle at all?

I have a Walther PPS (not the best comparison) and it's supposed to have fairly tight tolerances so the accuracy is pretty well noted. It has a tiny amount of wiggle; less than the M&P but it still has some.

 

[agksimon]

It does wiggle slightly but how much is acceptable? Is it supposed to be no wiggle at all?

I have a Walther PPS (not the best comparison) and it's supposed to have fairly tight tolerances so the accuracy is pretty well noted. It has a tiny amount of wiggle; less than the M&P but it still has some.

My M&P Pro 5" has front to back barrel movement of .007 and side to side movement of .006 Fitting the new barrel to .0005 front to back and .001 to .002 side to side, plus tight lockup on the barrel lug will greatly improve shot to shot repeatability (per my conversation with Randy Lee).

 

[F4injected]

My M&P Pro 5" has front to back barrel movement of .007 and side to side movement of .006 Fitting the new barrel to .0005 front to back and .001 to .002 side to side, plus tight lockup on the barrel lug will greatly improve shot to shot repeatability (per my conversation with Randy Lee).

Is that movement during lockup or with the slide pulled back slightly?

Also, Randy, with the SDI apex barrel, what is the estimated wear before the hood/lugs don't have that tight fit any longer?

Not sure if I worded that question correctly.

 

[agksimon]

Is that movement during lockup or with the slide pulled back slightly?

The fore/aft and side movement is measured with the slide off and barrel in and recoil spring removed. The lockup can be checked with the slide and barrel on, recoil spring and takedown lever removed. Hold slide in normal closed position and wiggle barrel up and down. Mine has several thousandths of vertical movement. That will be removed when fitting the new barrel.

 

[agksimon]

Barrels for sale starting this coming Monday, Dec.7, 2015

Apex Barrels at Brownells

Apex blog on fitting the barrel:

Installing The Apex Semi Drop-In Barrel | Apex Tactical Specialties

 

[Randy Lee]

It does wiggle slightly but how much is acceptable? Is it supposed to be no wiggle at all?

I have a Walther PPS (not the best comparison) and it's supposed to have fairly tight tolerances so the accuracy is pretty well noted. It has a tiny amount of wiggle; less than the M&P but it still has some.

The slide should be able to move back at least .060" without the barrel having any perceptible play at either end.

Our video showing how the barrel becomes destabilized should be up within a few days.

 

[Crabo]

Randy, how is this barrel for cast bullets? I mean for someone who is an experienced caster and understands bullet fit and alloys.