Accuracy of Gunfights of the Old West

McBear

McBear

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What is the truth about old west gunfights? Do film makers lie to make the story better? Did pulp fiction writers embellish the tales of the west to sell forests of books? Did the newspapers of the day play fast and loose with the facts to out sell their competitors? [that would never happen today :-)]

The Truth About Gunfights in the Old West

But the more important question...In one hundred years, after westerns are 250 years past what will our descendents be watching and reading? Romanticized accounts of drive-by shootings, or drone strikes and car-bombs? SWAT? Who will stand out as the Bat Masterson, Wyatt Earp and Wild Bill Hickok in THEIR popularized historical non fiction?
 
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Romanticized accounts of drive-by shootings, or drone strikes and car-bombs? SWAT? Who will stand out as the Bat Masterson, Wyatt Earp and Wild Bill Hickok in THEIR popularized historical nonfiction?
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Hopefully no one, as a society we've glamorized war and reveled in violence for too long. I pray those who come after us will break that cycle..
 
Like many others I studied most the historical accounts as best I could. I think it was a super rare deal for two opponents to actualy square off and walk down each other on agreeded to equal terms. Most people are more concerned in liveing through a advent rather than haveing bragging rights to being a lone survivor from a shoot out and being a "hero".
Now there was a "code duello" a couple hundred years ago. Actualy, I doubt there was many of those either. Just lately on another site I referred to a incident I read about abe lincoln. Some short fiesty type challanged abe to a duel. That gave abe the right of choice of weapons. Abe said okay. Post mauls in 6ft of water! Most normal people want a edge. No one gets a edge in a walkdown even fair gunfight, except maybe practicing a lot before hand. I think we can agree that even the best aint always the best when things happen under stress.
Kind of reminds me a story my dad told me about when he was young. Dad went duck hunting with a old german friend. They were sitting in the skiff some ducks were comeing in and Gus says you vait untill I tell you! Now vait, vaaait, VAIT! Blewey, blewy!---NOW!
 
Probably the most accurate depiction of an old west "gunfight" was in a made for TV movie "El Diablo", with Anthony Edwards and Lou Gosset Jr. Edwards' character, a dime novelist, who's trying to live the wild west, witnesses Gosset gun down a known bad guy. He's shocked. "You shot him in the back!" he whines. Gosset replies, "His back was to me."
 
Movies that depict the story accurately (or as close to accurately as can be determined) are called documentaries. Most documentaries aren't entertaining to the average viewer.

I once read a comment from Kevin Costner about the scene in "Open Range" where he fires 14 shots from one six-shot SA revolver without reloading. He said they knew it was unrealistic, but they didn't want to interrupt the continuity of the scene by having him reload or going for another gun.

That's Hollywierd...truth and accuracy are inconveniences! But the movies are entertaining, as long as you don't expect them to be historically correct or accurate.
 
Watch any Steven Seagal movie (if you can) 5 guys with full auto weapons can't hit him. He can take any one of them out with a single shot or if no gun, one blow with his hand.:D

You mean this isn't real???
 
In my opinion, the gunfights from the old wild west was overly glamorized. The good guys weren't totally good and the bad guys weren't totally bad. One of the most well known gunfighters of the old west is believed to have owned numerous saloons, faro concessions, and bawdy houses in the town that he and his brothers lived in, at the same time they were sworn lawmen.
 
Martimus said:
In my opinion, the gunfights from the old wild west was overly glamorized. The good guys weren't totally good and the bad guys weren't totally bad. One of the most well known gunfighters of the old west is believed to have owned numerous saloons, faro concessions, and bawdy houses in the town that he and his brothers lived in, at the same time they were sworn lawmen.
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And some people referred to them as "The Fighting Pimps".
 
In Paul Newman's movie The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, an outlaw rides into town to kill the judge. The judge is hiding in the hay loft of a barn, While the outlaw is challenging the judge to come out and fight, the judge calmly shoots the outlaw in the back with a buffalo gun. Sounds like a fair fight to me.
 
Then there is the character portrayed by James Colburn in Waterhole #3 who calmly steps behind his horse and pulls his rifle from the scabbard when confronted by an adversary in the classic stance in the middle of the street. He just shoots him and leaves him laying on the ground. But my favorite is the shoot out in the closing scene of Open Range when the two protagonists are face-to-face in the bar sitting on the floor. They both empty their guns at about 5 feet and neither one hits the other. Jim
 
Who wants to watch reloading anyway? It's boring. They don't show sleeping alone, feeding their horse, reading a book, or sitting on the pot. Just because they didn't show it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You want excitement, not daily drudgery.
 
I can tell you having read alot about gunfighters, most of those like John Wesley Hardin and Billy the Kid were nothing more than cold blooded killers plain and simple. It took decades for historians to finally get away from the high noon showdown. Only once did something remotely closely like that happen and that was Wild Bill Hickok vs Dave Tutt and both men shot practically at the same and Wild Bill hit him from 75 yards (documented) away. The rest were pretty much nothing like a fair fight as most people were shot in the back or from ambush. The Dime Store novel gave even people then an unrealistic view of the west, but back east that's what the people wanted in those days.
 
jdb3 said:
Then there is the character portrayed by James Colburn in Waterhole #3 who calmly steps behind his horse and pulls his rifle from the scabbard when confronted by an adversary in the classic stance in the middle of the street. He just shoots him and leaves him laying on the ground. ....
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Overall I didn't like that movie much, but that one scene is one of my all time favorites. Coburn solves his problem the way it should have been solved, and the way it probably often was.
 
Wild Bill Hickock was suffering from vision problems in his last years and I suspect many of the others didn't have 20/20 either. Also I wonder how much most of them practiced. I read during one spell as a Sheriff Hickock
would firing his cap and ball pistols in the morning, then reload so he started each day with fresh loads. Store bought ammunition was rather hard to come by in the more remote areas, and probably carefully hoarded "just in case". So much of what we know is based on the writing s of Ned Buntline who was not noted for his veracity, and Hickock could tell a tall tale or two.
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
Wild Bill Hickock was suffering from vision problems in his last years and I suspect many of the others didn't have 20/20 either. Also I wonder how much most of them practiced. I read during one spell as a Sheriff Hickock
would firing his cap and ball pistols in the morning, then reload so he started each day with fresh loads. Store bought ammunition was rather hard to come by in the more remote areas, and probably carefully hoarded "just in case". So much of what we know is based on the writing s of Ned Buntline who was not noted for his veracity, and Hickock could tell a tall tale or two.
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In some accounts I've read Wild Bill's .36's were still cap & ball. Other articles say they were
cartridge conversions. Anyone know for sure?
 
Also, the cowboys and lawmen didn't carry their guns in the silly holsters that hung down to the knee. The holsters then were all either waist high or cross draw. (John Wayne carried correctly, Little Joe Cartwright carried like a pimp.)
 
GKC said:
Movies that depict the story accurately (or as close to accurately as can be determined) are called documentaries. Most documentaries aren't entertaining to the average viewer.

I once read a comment from Kevin Costner about the scene in "Open Range" where he fires 14 shots from one six-shot SA revolver without reloading. He said they knew it was unrealistic, but they didn't want to interrupt the continuity of the scene by having him reload or going for another gun.

That's Hollywierd...truth and accuracy are inconveniences! But the movies are entertaining, as long as you don't expect them to be historically correct or accurate.
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One fo my favorite gun fight scenes ever!

I seem to remember that he said he went out of his way for realism in that gunfight, and his reloads were edited out of the final movie.
 
Lets see. You are a lawman. You have trailed one to three outlaws or maybe renagade indians for some bad crimes and you are about two days ride to the nearest cabin or settlement. You smell their camp. Comes now, the question. How do we handle it? Like the dog that caught the car. I am sure I am going to call out to the camp, "Hello camp. I am sheriff tilgman and here to discuss how you are going to go back and face justice. If you dont want to give up and go back peacefully say so now, else I will step into the firelight and we will shoot it out on signal."
Or do we show up in guyman two days later with a stiff body or two slung over their horses and a sad tale how I had no choice and got lucky in a shootout? Sniff, sniff. I will never be the same!
 
I saw the three part sries Hatfield, and Mccoys...Then I looked up the story on Google and found the basics were indeed true, and the amount of blooshed was by number pretty close to what was reported at the time..Shooting's wen't clamorus nor were they fair, but they shure shoot up a lot of folks on the Kentucky, West Virginia border...Now and then Costner hits a home run as in his epic Indian adventure Dances with Wolves, and also the Body Gaurd...Lets forget Waterworld.......
 
Hey, I sort of liked "The Postman" for the reluctant Joe Sixpack hero he portrayed--"things are getting better". Also the old geezer's comment, "I know stuff". Plus the lady did some pretty good work with the CAR-15...

I prefer it to "Red Dawn", actually.
 
More shotguns and rifles than close pistol "showdowns" from what I've read about real "gunfights".:)
 
Rule3 said:
How come nobody rips apart Clint Eastwood and John Wayne films, but nit pick everything in Hatfields and McCoys????
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How many of Wayne's & Eastwoods films are reasonably historically accurate.:D I have even seen jet contrails in the sky in a couple of Wayne movies!:eek:

I believe that the Hatfield& McCoy's were held to a much higher standard as they have historical connotations!
 
Bat Masterson

Here is an article written by Bat Masterson regarding some "gun fighters", and gun fights:

Ben Thompson and Other Noted Gunmen - A tale by Bat Masterson

And another quote by Masterson that I enjoy (not about gunfighting):

""There are many in this old world of ours who hold that things break about even for all of us. I have observed for example that we all get the same amount of ice. The rich get it in the summertime and the poor get it in the winter."
 
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