Accuracy problem with S&W 25-5, 45 Colt, solved

[rufgr]

A short time ago I purchased a very nice S&W 25-5 (s/n N69680x). I knew about the large throats on these but was confident that since I cast my own bullets I would easily be able to get decent accuracy. I was wrong about the easy part.

The throats on my revolver will accept a .457" diameter pin but not a .458". I had two moulds on hand that I thought might work. A Lyman 454424 and a 454190 both of these moulds dropped bullets at .454". I tried several powder types and velocity levels but accuracy was dismal.

I thought perhaps a hollow base bullet might work, so I did some research and found there are not a lot of options here but I did find a Lyman 454613. This mould was actually made for muzzle loaders and the one I have drops a .454" diameter bullet at 275 grains. I tried this with various powders and the best accuracy was with 5.8 grains of Titegroup. This is the target on the left in the photo. It is hard to believe but this was actually an improvement over what I had been getting

An old Lyman manual I have shows bullet 454309 has a normal cast diameter of .456". These are not easy find but I did finally find one on Ebay. The mould I purchased drops a bullet at .457" and weighs 240 grains. These were lubed without sizing and loaded with 8 grains of Unique. This is the target on the right. The shot at 11 o'clock was the first shot out of a clean cold gun and the shot at 12 o'clock I called. The other 8 almost make a ragged hole. This is the starting load in the manual I have but it is fairly powerful (850 fps)

Both targets were shot at 50' standing using a two hand hold.

 

[arjay]

Nice work! If I had the time,space and a good range out back,I’d get to work with my SAA

 

[rkrcpa]

It's always great when a plan comes together!

 

[Drm50]

I have 2 S&W 25-5s they both shoot well, the 83/8” shots outstanding with 250 FN cast and better with 242 gr WC. I have Colt NS in 455Eley. To get this gun to shoot had to modify a Ideal 322gr Gould Xpress Hp. mold. I size this bullet to .457”. Finished bullet came out to 272gr. Was shooting for 265gr but left well enough alone. You might look at some 45cal molds for rifles and find something you can use. Bottom pour mold can be turned off in lathe to reduce weight. With HP mold you can fine tune by increasing depth of pin. When I first started loading 45 Colt I was having trouble. It turns out the old die set I had was for .454” bullets. No good for loading factory jacketed bullets of 451-452”.

 

[rays44]

Did you notice any difference in leading at the throat? I would imagine there was quite a bit with the undersized bullets.
I have a similar situation with a USFA SAA and a Uberti Schofield. In spite of the oversize throats, they both shoot very well. Leading in the throats are moderate but manageable. I got lucky using .451 and .454 cast bullets.

 

[rufgr]

Drm50 - I have a Lee hollow base nose pour 45-70 mould that I was going to mill to produce a larger metplat and make a pin to shorten the bullet. This mould drops bullets at .459. Since the 454309 worked so well I will probably not do this.

rays44 - None of the bullets I tried produced any leading in the throats or the bore all of the bullets except the 454613 were wheel weights, not sure exactly what the 454613 was but it was soft enough to mark with your thumb nail.

 

[rwsmith]

Wow!

That tightened up that group a bit!

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Had a similar thing happen with a Colt Anaconda .45lc. Had to use .454 boolits to get it to shoot, .452s were all over the target. Original owner wasn’t a handloader and didn’t figure it out so he traded it off. The shop marked it down as a dud so I got a good deal. Used it in bowling pin shoots.

 

[rays44]

Drm50 - I have a Lee hollow base nose pour 45-70 mould that I was going to mill to produce a larger metplat and make a pin to shorten the bullet. This mould drops bullets at .459. Since the 454309 worked so well I will probably not do this.

rays44 - None of the bullets I tried produced any leading in the throats or the bore all of the bullets except the 454613 were wheel weights, not sure exactly what the 454613 was but it was soft enough to mark with your thumb nail.

Glad to hear there were no leading problems. I have a 25-5 non-pinned .45lc. S&W addressed the over size throat problem at that point (early 80's?). Mine are .451. It's one of my favorite revolvers. Pet loads with 8gr Unique shoots better that I can hold.

 

[Drm50]

The only leading problem I’ve had was with a 25-5 unpinned 83/8”. When I got it I had two boxes of Rem in the old Red & Green box. Ammo was from early 50s. Gun drove tacks with this old lead bullet ammo. I bought some Speer Lead SWC and loaded them up approx 700-750fps with Unique. Talk about leading it was like a Elmer Fudd cartoon. With in 18 shots lead was coming out the muzzle like foil. I have shot a lot of 38 cal Hornady WCs in target loads and never had this problem. I have also taken .50 cal cast ball and sized with lite load. Excellent 25’ accuracy.

 

[GypsmJim]

I didn't know about the throats when I bought my 25-5 about 10 years ago. Learned a lot on this site.

I was using 230 RN sized at .452 with dismal results.

I tried store bought Penn .454's and since they worked good I bought a Lee 255 RNF mold. Water quenched and unsized they mic at 0.454".

That solved the 25-5 problem, but the funny thing is that those boolits made improvements in the accuracy of several Ruger 45's that I own.

 

[scattershot]

Nice! I have one of those, too. I get acceptable accuracy with very soft .454 bullets ( Remington comes to mind, but there are others). I have thought of trying lightweight 45/70 bullets in it, too, just never got around to it. Looks like you have solved the problem.

 

[BigMuddy]

I had a 25-5 6” pinned barrel that shot lead bullets into patterns instead of groups. The throats measured .457. I had some loaded rounds with Hornady XTP’s that I knew would be even worse, but fired a 5 shot group that was barely over an inch at 25 yards. I was amazed to say the least.

A gun that shoots jacketed well but not lead can be an indicator of thread choke. Slugged the bore and it got real tight at the frame.

I fire lapped the barrel with 100 lapping bullets. (The most I’ve ever had to shoot in one barrel). Slugged bore again and the choke was gone. Now the gun shoots SWC lead bullets with great accuracy out to 75 yards. Didn’t try it any farther. For some reason it still wouldn’t shoot my 454190’s. Guess the big throats do still some negative affect.

Traded that gun to a dear friend. Sure wouldn’t have if it didn’t shoot well. He uses it as his “falling plate” revolver now and loves his Big Smith.

Dan

 

[Fishinfool]

If you don't cast your own, I would be on the look out for Remington or Winchester swaged .45lc bullets. I am not sure if they are still offered, but they are the bullets they used in standard factory LC ammo.

They are 255 grain weight, swaged (soft), and have hollow bases. They are designed to shoot well in revolvers with oversized throats. They did wonders for the accuracy of my early 3rd gen. Colt SAA.

Larry

 

[Drm50]

I said I got Two 25-5s which is right but also have a 25-3. I never hear about shooting them. Mines NIB.

 

[rays44]

I checked all my cylinders (.44's and '45's) by dropping a bullet of known diameter through the holes. If it hits my foot, it's oversized, If it's a slip fit it's perfect. If it gets stuck and wont push through, it's too tight. So far, the only tight cylinder I have is a Magna Classic with .427 throats.

 

[S&W Kid]

There is a YouTube channel named FortuneCookie45LC (all one word just like it is here). He shoots a 25-5 and reloads. You might look thru his videos and see if there is something helpful in there. If not, try contacting him and see if he can offer some help.