Accurate Arms #9 with .44 Special

[tjpopkin]

I agree with above posts that AA9 is not a suitable powder for .44 Spl. although great in my .44 Mag.
My most accurate .44 Spl loads are with AA5...8.5gr. and 215gr lead SWC.
Terry

 

[mtgianni]

May I have more details? Charge weight? How the malfunction occurred?

AA loadbook #1. 44 special 250 swc 10.4 gr start load 11.4. gr max.
I loaded 11 gr under a Ly429421 and tied the cylinder up with unburned powder at shot # 5. I was using a standard primer which I still use with #9 loads. I do not recall the crimp but it should have been heavy enough to allow a complete burn. Accurate Arms says to not use previous data with it's current powders. This load is for information regarding this question only.

 

[GregG]

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out while working with this powder.

I always use a magnum primer with slow ball powders. Just an old habit.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

AA loadbook #1. 44 special 250 swc 10.4 gr start load 11.4. gr max.

That certainly looks way too light for using AA#9 to me, especially based on my experience with Pearce's loads. I don't doubt that failure to achieve proper burn characteristics and pressure was the likely result. Even with a magnum primer and crusher crimp it may have issues. This must have been holding to a 14Kpsi level load. I don't know of any AA#9 loads at that pressure level; most load data shows it more suited to pressures above that. E.g., it is a great heavy bullet 10mm and Blackhawk level 45 Colt powder!

edit/ Just checked the new Accurate manual and they do list loads in 45 Colt as low as 17.5Kpsi. Interesting. I usually like it to be above 20K at least before I consider using it.

 

[m657]

What do you folks find with 44 special 200g RFN for such as ICORE & steel challenge in a 24-1 Thunder Ranch with the Hodgdon recipe using Clays 3.5-4.5???

 

[DGNY]

If you do achieve some decent and safe loads with AA9 in your .44 Special, please let us know. The 624 is a good platform, tho barrel length is, I suppose, better at 4" and up.

Safe loading to you,

Dyson

 

[MMA10mm]

The 11.5gr loads keep things under 12,500 psi, which is SAAMI max. The 16.5gr load listed in Handloader doubles the pressures, but they are not excessive for a modern 44 Spl. I wouldn't bother with any slow powder at the low pressure limits of SAAMI, but especially not a ball powder... Now at the 25k level, it is interesting... Just don't use it in old guns.

 

[MMA10mm]

What do you folks find with 44 special 200g RFN for such as ICORE & steel challenge in a 24-1 Thunder Ranch with the Hodgdon recipe using Clays 3.5-4.5???

For a light load that's safe in any 44 Spl, and low recoil, I use 5.0grs W231 with a 210gr RNFP. Clays should work too, though I have no direct experience.

 

[steamloco76]

UNIQUE_UNIQUE & UNIQUE!

 

[thedane]

Here's a link to an article that's worth reading:

A Special 44

I can't comment on AA9. However, I've used 5.0 grs Bullseye, 7.5 grs Unique and 15 grs of 2400 consistently in my N frame Smiths and Colt Single Action revolvers. This was behind 240/250 gr cast and 240 gr jacketed bullets.

With a 3" barrel you might want to stick to the first 2 lighter loads. Further, the Unique and 2400 loads are hotter than recommend in the Speer reloading manuals.

From what I've read, this is to protect older, more fragile revolvers. I would also be hesitant to use the hotter loads in small frame, lightweight revolvers.

 

[Rock77]

I have been big fan and users of the .44 Special for at least forty years and presently have three revolvers chambered in this caliber.

One of my revolvers is the 624 the same as you own, over the years I have used this caliber as my carry firearm a great deal and it is a substantial self defense caliber when loaded correctly.

I have several suggestions regarding defense loads for the .44, for the past ten years or so I have been using Vihtavuori
N340 & N350 with great success. The advantages to these powders is they measure great, burn very clean and have proven to be extremely accurate in all of my revolvers.

I have done a great deal of testing with the Hornady 180 gr. and 200 gr. bullets and they are very impressive in all of our testing. Depending on barrel length it is very easy to obtain velocities between 900 fps to over 1100 fps with completely acceptable pressures using both N340 & N350.

Recently, a friend of mine with extensive reloading experience was sharing with me his recent testing with Ramshot (Trueblue) in his .44 Special, he convinced me to buy a pound and give it a trial, at this point I have loaded up 100 rounds but have not had a chance to test it as yet. The reason he decided to test this powder was it is considerably less expensive than the VV powders in his neck of the woods and he believes it has many of the same advantages as N350.

 

[Daimler1989]

I have several suggestions regarding defense loads for the .44, for the past ten years or so I have been using Vihtavuori
N340 & N350 with great success. The advantages to these powders is they measure great, burn very clean and have proven to be extremely accurate in all of my revolvers.

I have done a great deal of testing with the Hornady 180 gr. and 200 gr. bullets and they are very impressive in all of our testing. Depending on barrel length it is very easy to obtain velocities between 900 fps to over 1100 fps with completely acceptable pressures using both N340 & N350.

Hi,

this is quite interesting. I use exclusively VV powders (I'm located in Germany, and VV is more easily available than US made powders). I did a .44 spl load with a 200 grs SWC lead bullet (BHN about 16-17) and 8.5 grs of VV 340, OAL of 1,47". This load is on the lower side of the official VV loading manual, but checked by Quickload, it should produce more than 25% overpressure (18300 psi) and deliver nearly 980 fps. Interestingly, the cases do not show any sign of overpressure, the primers only show the indention of the striker pin, and the cases are partly sooted. Still the load feels good to shoot in a Model 696 and is very accurate.

regards
Ulrich

 

[Hammerdown77]

I use 16.0 grains of AA#9 under a 240-250 grain lead bullet with great success in my mid-frame Ruger 44 Special Blackhawk. This load approximates the old Keith load using 2400. I came about this load from the Brian Pearce Handloader article. He listed a max of 16.5, which I worked up to, but I had good accuracy at 16 grains so I went back and settled on that charge.

It is a stout load in a smaller framed gun. Personally, I would not shoot it in a 624. At least not frequently.

AA9 is a great powder for the 44 Special, if you want to explore the true potential of the cartridge.

 

[Rock77]

The M-624 Smith & Wesson is based on the N-frame and is considered the strongest of the S&W revolvers excluding the X-frame chambered for the .500 S&W cartridge.

Any load remotely appropriate for the .44 Special is certainly safe in the N-frame S&W revolvers, through the years I have shot many rounds in the 1100 fps range with absolutely no issues in my M-624.

One has to remember that this is the same frame that the .44 Magnum is chambered in and has twice and more of the operating PSI of the .44 Special.

 

[jibjab]

" One has to remember that this is the same frame that the .44 Magnum is chambered in and has twice and more of the operating PSI of the .44 Special. "

And then there is that heat treating thing.

 

[Rock77]

I have never read anything documented from Smith & Wesson regarding N-frames having specific heat treatments for different calibers.

There is no doubt that cylinders receive heat treatment and I believe that is across the board.

The determining factor in strength has a great deal more to do with the thickness of the cylinder walls than any other factor. I am the owner of a Ruger Redhawk in .357 that was made for a very short time in the eighties, I have never seen a cylinder with more metal thickness than this revolver displays’ and I have still never exceeded top posted loads for this caliber.

I have complete faith that Smith & Wesson designs their N-frames to comfortable exceed any SAAMI standards developed for the respective calibers.

 

[Hammerdown77]

The M-624 Smith & Wesson is based on the N-frame and is considered the strongest of the S&W revolvers excluding the X-frame chambered for the .500 S&W cartridge.

Any load remotely appropriate for the .44 Special is certainly safe in the N-frame S&W revolvers, through the years I have shot many rounds in the 1100 fps range with absolutely no issues in my M-624.

One has to remember that this is the same frame that the .44 Magnum is chambered in and has twice and more of the operating PSI of the .44 Special.

Correct, my mistake. I was thinking of the 696, the one based on the L frame.

 

[GregG]

I've been loading small batches of different loads to try.

So far I have:

250 gr. LWC - 15 grs. AA#9

250 gr. LWC - 16 grs. AA#9

250 gr. LWC - 9 grs. SR4756

250 gr. LWC - 7.5 Unique

200 gr. Gold Dot - 9 grs. SR4756

I won't get to shoot for accuracy this weekend due to work, but hopefully next weekend.

 

[GregG]

I did get a chance to sneak out to the range today and shoot this nice 624 3 incher.

I added one load to the list above. 10 grs. of HS-6 with the 250 gr. LWC. The LWC I used is from Matt's Bullets, and is almost a full wadcutter. It's smaller ahead of the first drive band, but not small enough to be a bore rider.

I went to retrieve my targets from the trunk of my car but I must have left them inside the store when I went back in to buy another pound of powder. So all of the group sizes I state need to be salted to taste. They're just a guess. I'm a machinist for a living so my guesses won't be off by mile. I'll post pics from the next trip.

The first group I shot was the 250 LWC / Unique load. I wanted to try it first, before any leading occurred, because I thought it would have the best potential. It shot about a 5" group at 25 yards. It looks like this combination of bullet and powder does not go together well. I'll try Unique with a different bullet later. I have some 250 gr. Keiths coming.

The second group I fired was the 9 grs. of SR-4756 with the 250 LWC. It did better. About 3".

The 3rd group was the 10 grs. of HS-6 / 250 LWC load. It was great. Right at 2". It's my carry load for now.

The 4th load was the 16 grs. of AA9 / 250 LWC load. Very warm load. Quite a handful in this 3 incher. Group was about 3". This would be a good load for walking out to the deer stand.

I checked the bore after shooting the lead loads, and got no appreciable leading from any of these loads. The top of one land had just a little bit on it. Nothing major.


The fifth load was 9 grs. of SR-4756 and the 200 gr. Gold Dot that Speer makes just for the .44 Special. Easy load to shoot and accurate also. About 3".

The last group was a cylinder full of Silvertips. Very easy load to shoot. About 3 inches also.

I'm not going to shoot any more of the 16 grs. AA9 / 250 LWC load in practice. I know where it shoots, about 2 inches below the HS6 load. The empty cases were not sticky coming out, but the gun felt like a .44 Magnum when shooting them.

For now HS6 is my go-to powder for this gun. I bought another pound of it to assemble more loads to try. Maybe I can tweak things down a little tighter.

 

[Hammerdown77]

Interesting you mention that HS6 load. My buddy was trying out some HS6 loads this weekend in his flat top Blackhawk Bisley model, and he had exceptional accuracy using a 250 Keith over 9.3 grains of HS6. Lit by a magnum primer, I believe. I shot that load a few times myself, and it was in fact like a laser out of that Blackhawk.

I'm surprised the 7.5 grains of Unique load did not do well. I'll be interested to see your results with the 250 Keith. That combination has shot well out of most guns I've dropped it into.

That 16 gr AA9 load is brisk, ain't it? I loaded some of those in the cylinder of my model 29 with some real 44 mag loads using 20 grains of AA9 under a 250 gr. Keith, and I could not really tell a difference in recoil between the two. That was a 6" gun, I'd imagine a little more muzzle flip out of the three incher.